permitted development extension and upsetting neighbours...

[Elibean]

..as in, the neighbours are upset

We've tried hard to make our planned extension fit with permitted development limits, and if it goes through the neighbours can't actually stop us building it - but I feel dreadful about creating upset and anxiety. They are all fairly elderly, and have seen no changes in their little row of semi-detached houses for at least 40 years - unlike most of our area, admittedly.

I'm going nuts trying to shave a few inches off the height, am wondering how short a door we can get away with, least pitch velux indows need, etc etc....but at the end of the day, we need the extension and we can't make it much lower or smaller or there's no point in doing it.

I suppose I'm looking for stories of upset/anxious neighbours who have come round when the reality has'nt been as bad as the idea.....or any ideas as to how to make it less awful/me feel less awful

We built an extension on the back last year and our elderly neighbour was terribly worried about the whole thing.

I think her main concerns were;

noise and disruption - this seemed to be her main concern. I told the builders and they were very considerate towards her.

her drains - she was also very worried that moving our drains would effect hers. We were able to show her on the plans that this would not effect her drains...

fear of change and the unknown - she readily admits now that, even though we gave her a copy of the plans, she couldn't imagine what it would be like. She now says she likes it!

We built a new fence on her side and she keeps telling me how she likes it as it gives her more privacy!

Not sure if that helps but imo I don't think you should compomise the design to fit in with them. You will be cross about it everytime you think about it. Sounds like it is the fear of change they don't like... ONce it is built they should be better.

We found keeping her informed kept oour neighbour on side.

Thanks Cece, you're confirming our thoughts. We've now decided to compromise our building plans only if the council require us to (unlikely, but you never know!) and we're working hard to keep the neighbours on both sides informed about everything.

Though one of them is so confused by all of it, I don't think its going in too well

The husband of the other, who has taken a liking to dh, almost winked at him yesterday whilst saying 'I don't think much of the anxiety around your extension is based in reality'. I think his dw is probably the boss, but its nice to know he's still friendly - and planning on getting his granddaughter together with dd1

We objected to next doors extension

Their comes out 6' past the front of our house, thus blocking light on a northenr facing front.
At the back it now comes level with ours, plus only leaves 2.5' between our houses so we feel v over looked.
After they had had this built, they built up the wall between us with those horrid grey building blocks, without telling us, so our wall looked shit. They then told us this was because they felt overlooked by us

They built it as they wanted a gym in their house. They have never equipped it with gym stuff but have an additional living area and upstairs bedroom and bathroom.

TBH, we did object, but were always very polite about it and explained that if they did build it (which they have) we wouldn't be that cross and would still be nice neighbours etc!

And we are all still friends! We would have just rather they didn't build it.

Sounds fair enough! Building a wall without telling you first sounds a bit cheeky...I wouldn't like that either (and would never do it).

Elderly neighbour complained about the two storey extension that her neighbour built but now concedes because there is no longer a window facing her garden it gives her more privacy.

We had objections from neighbours about replacing our eye-sore conservatory with just about the same thing but nicer! The difference is that a wall as been built up where there was obscure glass but neighbours can't actually see this anyway. Because planning laws had tightened in-between we had to reapply for planning. Their objections have not changed our plans in any way.

I would guess in your situation that extensions will be built in your road come what may, it's only a matter of time, and therefore as long as the plans are approved by the planning dept and are sympathetically done you should go ahead.

Thanks, Heated, its very useful to hear others' experiences. You're right about the future of our road: we heard from a mutual friend that the people who nearly bought our house (they couldn't exchange in time for the vendor) were planning a big extension and loads of interior work....so whoever would have bought it would do it.

Good news: one side has agreed to go ahead with Party Wall agreement subject to protective survey of their property - using our surveyor, which is faster and cheaper. They still beg us to reconsider the height of the thing, but we know we can only concede 4" which frankly....!

Just hope the permitted development cert. comes through fast now, that would help.

Definitely keep them informed as much as you can about what's going on. Our neighbours (narrow terrace) have spent the last year on and off building an extension and then renovating their house (not living in it while this is going on) and it all started about a month after dd was born. So we would have drilling through the wall at random times, drilling the floors, sanders etc, and never any warning of what was going on. Just when we thought they'd finished, another tradesman would turn up and start circular-sawing stone tiles for the patio. If we'd had a bit of warning I could have arranged to be out with dd, but they somehow always seemed to start up just after I'd managed to get her off to nap

Sounds frustrating, to say the least. Yes, we're round there almost every day, and have lots of contact with the neighbours really...plus the builder is a friend (with a baby, so pretty noise-aware), the project manager is my brother, and the carpenter is dh's nephew-in-law

They'll all be good at communicating, I think.

We had a similar challenge but were helped a lot but a service we stumbled on www.3dguides.co.uk which helped us easily build a picture of what we wanted to do so we could show the neighbours

It helps to have something visual as most people simply cannot picture things very well..

worked for us Becky

Thanks, Becky. Sadly, our architect did a 3-d for them, but its made no difference. Still, one side has accepted its going to happen and are complying with party wall surveys quite politely. The other side is going to talk to our MP to see if she can stop us (!) but then, hopefully, she'll admit defeat and we can get on.

I think only time, and persistent niceness in the face of fear-of-change, is going to help...its a shame, but hey ho its been a long time with no change.

It's worth remembering that the PD limits are set so that anything built within them will not have a damaging impact on the neighbouring properties. Anything that is outside those limits has the potential for harm and therefore needs to be considered by the planning department. That knowledge might not help your neighbours understand, particularly if they can't visualise your extension, but it might help you deal with any bad feeling by you knowing that you aren't doing anything which would have a negative impact on their property. If whatever you build is within the PD limits then it cannot create a problem for your neighbours.

Good luck, if it helps, people often get worked up about these things when in the long run it really isn't a big problem and it might give them ideas for their own houses when they see the improvement to your's

Elibean, we are in the final week of an 8 month renovation of a lovely old house.

From start to finish, the neighbours have been an absolute nightmare.

We have gone out of our way to be polite and courteous to them all, but the bottom line is that they don't like the change. Add in the mix the fact that two of our neihbours were born in the house we have built, and the other has worked for the family for 50 years, and you'll get an idea for how difficult things have been.

When we started, I had high hopes that they would appreciate our hard work on the property etc. etc. etc. In fact, one has basically ignored us and virtually refuses to speak to us, whilst another spends every day telling our builders that they are doing things wrong!

Our builders have been nothing but lovely to them all, digging them out of the snow, chopping wood for them, mending their guttering etc.

We have now just given up, are getting on with our work and will be civil when we see them, even though they continue to be difficult and rude to us.

I think they've found it particularly difficult that we are not living there. I notice that you're also in rented accommodation.

The bottom line is that you are following the planning rules, so you just need to get on and do it. Stop trying to please them. You need to get it right for your family. Once it's done, they will get used to it.

"were born in the house we have bought", not built

Very sound advice from both of you, thank you. Littlefish, that puts our situation into perspective...and sounds upsetting, to say the least. I do relate, on a shorter, smaller scale - I feel as though I've been through dismay, guilt, sorrow, and have now got fed up and am just going to politely get on with it!

And yes, it does help, squashedfrogs, thank you. I sort of 'knew' that in the back of my head, but it helps to have it spelt out

Onwards! This has been a great support thread, hope it is a bit for others too.

Yes it is helpful. I will endeavour to display "persistent niceness in the face of fear-of-change" on the basis that our loft conversion is not going to have a lasting effect on them, therefore it is not worth falling out with them over.

Good for you, Toots!

I am struggling with my persistent niceness

We're fine on one side now (albeit one of the couple is more resigned than happy).

The other side has seen her (our) MP, who for whatever reason said she'd 'look into it' and left neighbour with ongoing hope that something could be done to stop us building. I suspect MP couldn't quite cope with saying 'tough' to muddled old lady - which is, we've discovered only half the story. She's hard as nails and not that old.

Anyway...Party Wall Surveyor has had enough, and is serving her with a 10 day notice to appoint a Surveyor or put up with the consequences, ie Party Wall Award goes ahead without her property being surveyed at all. He says she has no right to stop us, and we should be able to start building in 2 weeks.

dh is worrying that she will deny access to her property when we need to get in to render that side of our new wall

I am worrying that we're going to have a 10 year cold war with one neighbour, and/or that I'm going to lose my battle to be persistently nice in the face of opposition!

'look into it' my arse. Sorry to hear that. Maybe you could get onto the mp to try and bring it to a head? Just a thought.

Thanks Toots, but I think we'll leave well alone and wait for the Surveyor to deal with it all. At least he's frustrated enough to want to get on with it now

tbh, I suspect the MP will write a letter in a few weeks' time saying 'very sorry, but nothing I can do about it' to the neighbour. She has no planning background, and probably doesn't even know what the rules are...giving her benefit of the doubt here!

How's the loft going?

Elibean, can I hijack your thread for the name of your architect, if you are happy with him or her? We are moving house soon and I think I will need one! CAT me if you'd prefer not to put details on the thread!

fridayschild, will gladly pass his name on to you if you like - are you in London? He was recommended to us by a very established, local (SW London) architect who viewed our job and pronounced it 'too small' for him

He's quite young, but came highly recommended and has done a nice job. Will find his email and send it to you via CAT.

Personally I would not change the plans, but take round regular bottles of wine once the building work starts - at least they can stay 'happy' through it!

We had neighbours from hell when we extended our house 4 yrs ago.
Party wall agreement and all that goes with it, we had to fork out for their highly expensive surveyor and had to step the whole extension in 6 inches because of them.They did everything they could to add expense or delay the build.
They ased for the scaffolding to be taken down and fence panel put back every night when the builders went home because his wife was scared of falling into a hole (mad claustrophobic bitch)
Building inspector , planning , surveyor, and builders all thought they were clearly nuts. They made the surveyor write letters whenever a nail or something accidentally fell into their garden.
The builders pinned the letters up for all to see .
Still makes my blood boil but they have thanfully moved .. 2 months after the extension was finished.
You have my sympathies.

YIkes, ggirl, thats scary

I'm glad for you that yours moved, and glad for me that we didn't need to go to planning (as opposed to permitted development), and hoping like hell that our paranoid and fairly nutty neighbour either gives in at some point, or moves. The latter is highly unlikely, given that she's been there 50 years

Not sure she'd soften for a bottle of wine, either....come to think of it, am a little scared at the thought of what she might be like after one...

fridayschild, I failed with CAT - never mind, here it is (his name is Tom Irwin). Without the spaces, obviously.

tom @ studiotom. co. uk