Please, please, PLEASE help me with my upstairs neighbours and their builders. the builders are brutes, they spit on our stairs, flick fag ash everywhere, the whole hallway is a PIT and they utterly, utterly REFUSE to close the door of the flat upsta...

[Aitch]

we've spoken to our neighbours about it (as have the people upstairs to them) and the builder has basically said that if they 'pander' to us then they won't finish the job on time. PANDER?! they are revolting, disgusting, the scum of the earth, i hate them. but our neighbours can't control them, no-one can...

and of course the noise and dust are bad, really bad, but somehow it would be easier to bear if they weren't being such utter cunts at the same time.

the work, by the way, is pulling down pretty much every internal wall of a massive victorian flat, moving kitchens, bathrooms, wetrooms etc. it's a massive job and we're the ones suffering the most because it's happening above us. (in fact, they've cracked our ceilings and WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH OUR INSURANCE cos they're refusing liability. we have photos, though).

we hear the noise above us and then a couple of milliseconds later we hear it amplified back through the hallway, like a big acoustic guitar. it's torture.

we can't live like this, it's impossible, me and dh both work from home and can't make a phone call during the day and dd is shaking every time the drilling starts. we've had to put her into nursery more so it's costing us money for them to do their work, never mind lost earnings.

i phoned the council and they've yet to phone me back... it's been a few days. does anyone have any experience of this? are there people i should be speaking to? please help, i'm going a bit mad with this. it's been three weeks and it's going to be at least another five, apparently.

have JUST found out that the contract they've signed with the builder says that the builder pays for any over-runs. so THAT'S why he's being such a bully, he's in the shit financially for any time over.

why are we being penalised for the type of contract that our neighbour signed? i couldn't give a fuck if they're upstairs for the next six months so long as they don't disturb us.

oh i am getting really angry.

(thanks slur btw, and everyone).

I'm surprised that you haven't made more of the fact that you are pregnant. Even if it goes against character, I would really play on that aspect with environmental health. The noise is perhaps unavoidable, but the mess and the dust could be reduced by keeping doors and windows shut - builders can use masks to avoid breathing in too much dust (many do), you shouldn't be expected to.

Try and get your upstairs neighbour onside too. A double complaint is more effective than just one neighbour complaining.

Send an email to the neighbours responsible, refuting all the points in their email (about when you had work done) and explaining exactly what problems are becing caused and what, in your opinion, could be done to reduce the effects on neighbours. State that, unless they take measures to minimise the nuisance caused to you, you will have to submit a formal complaint - you could, if so minded, actually issue court proceedings for nuisance although that's rather extreme. Are your neighbours aware that you are heavily pregnant with possible complications? If not, make it very clear so they can't claim they were unaware.

What Freckle said - though try and make it clear that it is not a problem because you are pregnant, but this is causing very serious health problems.

Best of luck

I would really start to get nasty now. You seem to have held back so far because your neighbours are "nice, but just wimpy". They clearly are not nice if they are prepared to see a heavily pregnant woman and her family subjected to such dreadful conditions rather than address the issue with their builders. And then to try to claim they had to put up with the same when you had works done when they weren't even there, just takes the biscuit.

I suspect that your relationship with them now will never be what it was, so I don't think you will be ruining a life-long friendship if you start to be assertive.

yes I agree with Freckle about the mess/dust. That is something they (environmental health) will be very interested in - and the mess in communal areas. In fact, they could get the building work stopped on that alone if they felt it was sufficiently dangerous (there was a similar issue near us with a boy with bad asthma and neighbours doing v dusty work).

Obviously, you don't want it stopped necessarily, you just want it over and them being reasonable but make sure you set it out as Freckle has said and be careful not to warn them that Envir Health are coming round because you may find they miraculously transform themselves for their visit.

(can I just say - the fuckers, the lot of them)

definitely time to get stroppy. Suggest that unless their builder takes immediate measures to mitigate the nuisance you may need to move out to protect your unborn child, and bill them for accommodation costs. Say that you will, once work is completed, have damage to the ceiling assessed and will send them the bill for the work. It is then up to them to either claim it from their insurers (public liability) or their builder's insurers. Your insurers will not pay for damage that is another person's liability.

Point out that you took measures to reduce any nuisance caused by your building work, as they would know if they had been present.

If you have contact details for the builder a solicitor's letter directly to them requiring them to mitigate the nuisance or face a compensation claim may have some effect. The courts wille xpect you to put up with some noise/dirt but I doubt that includes sawing things in the hall.

YOU.NEED.TO.SPEAK.TO.A.SOLICITOR.

ASAP.

The neighbours are liable for:

1. Whatever is going on with YOUR ceiling. They are responsible for finding out the extent of the damage and repairing it so you have a certificate of that repair to pass on to your buyers should you sell.

2. The extra childcare you have had to pay out for because of the mess.

Possibly for:
3) Their builders breaking the smoking ban.

4. The impact this is having on your health (phone your midwife TODAY).

5. The time you have spent dealing with their fuck ups.

You have a valid case, particularly when it comes to the ceiling.

Again, no need to get stroppy or ugly.

Leave that to the solicitor.

Keep all emails.

Tell them in the future unfortunately you need to keep things on a professional level, in writing.

It's not nice to do this to your neighbours.

It may also be in violation of a number of environmental policies and almost certainly of the smoking ban.

So keep the council involed.

Did you keep a log of whom you spoke with at the council adn the time and date of the call?

Make sure you log when you phoned them back, too.

Even after the work is done, they can still be held responsible for the financial and emotional ramifications to you.

3rd party wall act

Small claims can be used in Scotland for claims of up to £3000. You do not need a solicitor to bring suit, but if you can pull in favour all the better.

The insurance is another matter.

I can bet London to a brick when it comes down to it your insurance will balk at paying on a claim for damage that is the not the result of your (the insureds) actions.

Oh gosh I'm stressed just reading this. You poor things. What utter barstards. (And congratulations too).

You say the neighbours are nice but they aren't really are they? Given that they are prepared to let this happen.

Listen to Expat, she is, as usual, talking sense

Oh, and

Could you bribe the builders to keep the door shut? Just wondering if a small wad of cash will keep the inconsiderate f*ckers quiet.

Our downstairs neighbour was doing construction work seven days a week, despite repeated pleas to stop on the weekends.

The workers left one of the windows open one night. DH noticed and emptied our cat's litter tray through the window.

Calling the owner at 3am a couple of times to discuss the matter also helped.

Do everything expat says; she is absolutely right.

OOh Aitch you poor things, it sounds intolerable. And congratulations!

Freckle and Expat's advice sounds the way to go.

Also, way back down the thread, you mentioned something about a trade association number on the van? Can you ring that for any advice, or copy them into complaint emails to the council?

odd. today they have kept the doors closed and someone has tidied up the hallway a bit. wonder if the upstairs neighbour had some effect then?

Maybe your neighbour is a mner and is now scared shitless about all the advice you've had .

I haven't read the whole post, so sorry if I'm repeating something someone's already said, but I would be more than certain that the lease for the flat says that they are not to cause a nuisance.
It should be in the same terms as your lease (if you own the flat?) so check and see whether it says you are not to cause a nuisance.
Pursue it with the council and the Landlord/Management company, and get together with the other neighbours who are suffering.
Good luck!

(Taking pictures is a very good idea)

Freckle is right, your neighbour has read this thread and is bricking it.

I predict you will get flowers and chocolates tomorrow, and champagne upon the birth of your DC.

pah, the neighbour is childless. probably something to do with having no balls. he told me, when i said that dd couldn't sleep in the day in her own home 'well at least that means she'll sleep at night'. and also poor dd had chickenpox the first week of the walls coming down (so no nursery, and no going out, it was HELL ON WHEELS) and he said 'yes, it's just unfortunate, that. otherwise you could just have left the house.' BUT WE PAY A MORTGAGE TO KEEP A ROOF OVER OUR HEADS FOR PRECISELY THESE SORTS OF EVENTUALITIES! we shouldn't have to exit the building... that's the WHOLE POINT.

phoned enviro health, they're getting back to me. like you said, very interested in me being pg and the dust situ.

Do you know anybody who could lend you a gun?

(Appearance in open doorway of hysterical mad-eyed self-employed pregnant pedant with gun in hand might concentrate their minds...)

Congratulations!

Commiserations about crap though. It's completely outrageous and what half-decent person wouldn't want to jump through any hoop to make things a bit more tolerable for their neighbours - who they have to live with again when they come back to their new, shiny flat, or do you think they've forgotten that bit...?

If you're spending a lot of time up at my bit (though if same place as you had dd then not) come and say hello - I can get you mumsnetting access

thanks bookthief, where've you bin? i'm at the PRM again (looooooove that obs) but we should meet up at the international commonwealth bowls complex... pmsl. or the park.

(I would have said Congrats too only I said it a few months ago & I do hate repeating myself )

you cleaker...