Would you challenge a landlord replacing Miele with a cheaper dishwasher?

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We rent a pretty expensive flat in London. The yield is very low and the landlord struggles to break even. That said, the flat has appreciated over the £1m in the 25 years the landlord has owned it.

The flat is a little bit dated but the rental price is commensurate. The kitchen would have been pretty high spec when it was put in around 2012. This includes a (not built in) dishwasher, fridge, oven, washing machine etc all from Miele.

The dishwasher broke and the landlord joked to me how expensive Miele ones were. So I joked back that the Miele appliances were why we rented this place (partly true).

Landlord fits new dishwasher and it’s a £250 one from China. I was expecting a Miele one or something of similarly high quality. Would you argue about this? DP thinks I’m precious.

I’ve had plenty of cheaper end white goods that have long outlived expensive, branded versions.

You are being precious and an outdated brand snob. Chinese does not equal shit.

OP, the dishwasher broke and you now have a new one - and you didn’t have to pay for it. If you are so desperate to have a Miele, you will have to stump up for one. Your landlord can put in any sort of appliance he sees fit. If you were so desperate to have another Miele, the time to have spoken to him was before its purchase, when some accommodation might have been possible. But now, you have the dishwasher you have. The end.

You are being silly.

Miele don’t have a good reputation any more. It’s foolish to buy one or want one. It’s likely the new, cheaper one will be as good, if not better.

It's appreciated £1m in 25 years but that million is only worth half as much as 25 years ago, and in the last 5 years it's probably barely appreciated at all (I have friends who own 2 rental flats in London which haven't) in which case your landlord is making a loss renting to you, and when they do come to sell will face capital gains tax on all the paper gain even though half of it was inflation and is lost money.

You've got a bit of a nerve mentioning that and connecting it with complaining about the dishwasher brand.

I'm surprised you say this! The Miele washer / dryer which was in the flat we bought in 2019 (and was already a few years old at that point) is hands down the quietest (and there best, IMO) washing machine I've ever experienced. It was amazing.

If it successfully cleans your dishes you have nothing to complain about.

With dishwashers one can spend £1000 on high quality and get a dishwasher that lasts 15 years with maybe £100 in callout charge if it needs attention or you can spend £250 and get a dishwasher that lasts 4 years so needs replacing 3 times over the same period and needs a callout every 18 months or so to fix problems, so spend a lot more across 15 years, but it's the landlord's choice.

If it fails to work, then you pester the landlord to fix it. If it works that's ok.

Sorry but he's bought a brand new dishwasher. If that one breaks then he'll buy yet another. Presumably if it really is a crap as you suspect he'll realise he's not onto a winner by cheaping out.

I cannot fathom him being arsed to have the new one removed at his own cost and replaced by the brand he 'joked' was too expensive. Just because you say so. If you want high end products then pay high end rent. Which you say you're not doing. Or buy the Miele yourself.

By all means hand in your notice, that will do him a favour as he’ll be able to rent the property out of a higher rent.

I have a 35 year old Miele washing machine and a few months ago it went wrong for the first time and I got The Man out to look at it. He waxed lyrical about it and even took photos because of its age. It needed a new control panel, I think, costing abotut £250 and I said he could order it as a new machine would cost me over £1000. He told me that the new ones aren't a patch on mine, they wouldn't last as long, 'It's not the make it once was' was his opinion on Miele!

This is not a valid complaint. Don't bother trying.

I'd just be happy to have a working dishwasher that I hadn't had to pay for.

Your business is whatever your contract says, and however much your rent is. If it specifies you have a Miele appliance then raise it. If it specifies it using generic terms for white goods, then that’s what you’ve got.

Your business is not how much the flat is worth, has appreciated over the period, the extent to which they do or do not make a profit, the brands of appliances put in the flat (if not detailed in the contract). You’re free to give notice and find another flat which has designer white goods if it is as important to you as your post suggests it might be.

Im still trying to figure out how the landlord fails to break even if hes owned it over 25yrs.

But in answer to your question....no you cant expect like for like, like you said the kitchen was high spec when it was fitted. Not now.

Would not be surprised if he says he will sell if go complaining about a non issue like this.

Very unlikely the lease stated like for like replacement of white goods. I'm a LL and my contract simply state dishwasher in good working order.

I’m a landlord and my answer would be no. Well that’s the polite one.

I don’t understand really - you describe your flat as pretty expensive but also that the yield is low (whatever that means!?) but also that the flat is dated and priced accordingly… so which is it…?

I think that when you buy a dishwasher you can decide which brand to choose. You’re being a bit of a snob. You haven’t said that the dishwasher is not working well, or too loud, or something has already snapped… you’ve said it’s not Miele…

You don’t get 14 years out of new Miele dishwashers unfortunately.

They are shit quality now. Our old one lasted nearly 15 years. Got a new one and it needed repaired twice in two years before dying. Our £99 cheap stop-gap one has lasted three years so far, and we use it every day, sometimes twice a day.

I’d be amazed if your contract specified brands.

Buy it yourself if you're so precious.

I have no doubt the landlord is seriously thinking of selling up. He's making a loss and might as well have the capital without the stress. Do you really want to push him in that direction?

I have just sold up myself because I can't keep operating at a loss and with all the stress. Bit crap for my tenant sadly.

Agreed, but wanted to leave the possibility there.

I've just sold my buy to let which I had for over 20 years. Because the mortgage was interest only it just carried on and I owe the same today as when I bought it. The huge mortgage interest hike meant we were barely making anything at all with insurance and repairs factored in. I put a new kitchen and bathroom in 6 years ago which took out a lot of the profit. It was meant to be my pension but it was probably not the wise decision I thought it was.

Don’t be silly now and the value of the flat and how much the landlord has made is none of your business. It’s his property, you pay to live there.

You rented a flat because it had an expensive dishwasher? You do know that most appliances have parts from China in them , i mean you could say but what do you think your LL would do ?

You're going to have to hike up rent, unfortunately, if you want to keep it going. Try to put as much as you can into the mortgage.