subsidence next door - asked to remove hydrangea

[railingsandsilver]

Live in a terraced house in Bristol and have a lovely mature climbing hydrangea on my exterior wall.

Unfortunately my neighbours have bad subsidence (our place is safe, as was underpinned years ago). Their insurers have 'recommended' that we remove our hydrangea - but their monitoring has shown no evidence of hydrangea roots under neighbour's property, and their report specifically says that vegetation couldn't be determined to have caused what's going on. It seems to be precautionary at this stage.

My plan is to say that I don't believe it's necessary to remove it now but if it shows as a clear factor at a later stage we'll reconsider. But I'm a bit spooked by the 'if you don't follow our instructions, we could hold you liable for costs' wording on their letter. I know insurers like to do this to intimidate and can't legally make us do it if it's an unproven cause.

Does anyone have any experience? Do I just hold my nerve? TIA

No experience I'm afraid but can't you get 15min free legal advice?

If I thought there was the smallest possibility that my plant was responsible I’d be chopping it down and I would imagine that is what most people would do . Would chopping it down devalue your house ?

Surely a climbing hydrangea wouldn't cause subsidence? That sounds laughable although I am not an expert.

Yours is underpinned, what was causing your subsidence? Surely it's just the same thing?

Thanks. The advice I've had is 'legally, they cannot make you do it'. Also, lots of pieces online about how insurers encourage the felling of trees and plants unnecessarily to slow down shelling out for proper work.

@tinyspiny - at this point, they haven't proved it's responsible. Obviously if it was proven to be, I would remove it. It's clear they are trying to push me to act pre-emptively.

Is it clay soil? Are they thirsty plants?

It might be drying out/shrinking the soil and causing the subsidence that way, rather than intrusive roots breaking the foundations.

@Pootles34 - I know. There are probably a number of factors - we are in a high risk area and the hot summers have made everything worse. They will have to have extensive work done to fix I'm sure.

I guess what scares me is the possibility that if they find roots later (I'm not sure how as they've already taken soil samples), could they turn around and say 'right, you need to pay for all their work'? 😝

@ThisOldThang - yes, I imagine none of the surrounding trees/plants are helping matters. But there's a big difference between that and being a clear cause (it's an old house that was already cracking a decade ago), so...?

No, but your insurers would have a hard time refusing any claim they may make if you don’t comply with their reasonable request (to remove the hydrangeas). Yes, hydrangeas are thirsty plants.

What do your insurers say? If you got a claim, presumably you'd be taking it to them.

I haven't involved my insurers yet. It's their insurers.

Seriously, how deep rooted is a climbing hydrangea? I removed a normal one this year that gets to 6ft x 6ft every year after a good prune. It was at least 35 years old and the root ball was no larger than 4ft x 3ft x 2ft deep and took me two hours to dig out with a large mattock.
I couldn’t imagine that causing any subsidence!

Ridiculous!!!!
No a hydrangea however thirsty won’t affect their foundations.
Typical CF try-on.

@SabbatWheel - exactly, and they've got problems all through their house and on the other side as well - which is a fair distance away. It seems to be a case of 'let's ask to remove any possible factor' but not being able to prove it is a factor! It's more what they could come back with later that worries me.

I think what we’re saying is how your insurers are likely to view it if the neighbours insurers made a claim against you for not acting in accordance with their request. I don’t think you’ve got much choice tbh.

I'd be speaking to my insurers for advice and take it from tgere.

@letshavetea - but that would be ridiculous, surely? You can't just go around demanding people do things without proving why they should...

I would keep a record of the letter and your reply.
I would quote them that there is no evidence that your plant is causing a problem so for now you will leave it in place. If any evidence is presented to suggest otherwise in the future you will of course reconsider.

wish them well with identifying the cause and all the best for the remedial work required.

I would hope that I would be covered by saying 'if you can prove it's causing an issue, then I'll remove it'. But I know insurance companies love to wiggle out of paying out for things!

Your insurance presumably includes legal cover in the event that your property causes damage to anyone else's, so it should cover any claim against you. But you may want to check the fine print or speak to them about what would happen if you've refused this. However it does seem incredibly unlikely that the hydrangea would have caused such an extensive problem.

I just don’t think hydrangea roots go down that far.

@letshaveteaI would worry about completely the opposite - if she cuts back the hydrangea she may be construed to be admitting liability for the subsidence next door. I wouldn’t do anything before ringing your own insurers OP.

I thought hydrangeas were thirsty plants. Surely they would help with excess water?

A quick google search says hydrangeas are thirsty plants

Yes the clue is in the name ‘hydra…

surely the root structure would be supporting the ground and preventing water logging though

eta: get some legal advice, surely the other side would have to prove it was the hydrangeas and nothing else.

No the name means water vessel but this is not what you think. It is because the seed capsules resemble small cups.