Replacing windows in Grade II listed home

[Fl0weryTwats]

Our original timber windows are falling to bits and probably won’t last more than another year or so, they are unfortunately long past repair they are also single-glazed and letting in draughts where the timber is compromised. We are planning to replace them as sympathetically as possible whilst keeping the house insulated so will be submitting a planning application to upgrade them. Previous owners have already replaced some of the windows with uPVC, although I’m not sure I’ve ever seen paperwork for them. My bedroom can be 10 degrees at night in the winter because of these bloody windows!

Has anyone been granted permission to upgrade existing windows to uPVC?

Several of our neighbours have done it without permission ... then had to take them out and put in wooden ones when they wanted to sell the house

Depends on the area and the council/planning dept - our house is not listed but we have no permitted dev rights so have to got to planning for everything! We’ve had timber replaced with timber, modern timber windows are worlds away from what you currently have but we did have to have them made as none of our windows are a ‘normal’ shape or size.
Have a look at timber look windows and residence collection, they have a good acceptance rate in listed buildings

We have a grade 2 listed cottage and the people who lived here before us had permission for 'like for like' windows in the way they looked. They had to be timber but as a PP said, the timber windows of today are much better than the old ones.

Permission was granted for a double glazed pane in the timber windows. So its nice and looks nice and is not at all draughty.

Several of our neighbours have just gone for it and put uPVC in. The council are completely unaware but its risky as if they are found out within a certain amount of time (I think its 10 years for enforcement) then they have the right to force you to remove them.

I have never known of anyone actually be given permission and LBC for uPVC in a listed building. 🤔

You will not get permission to replace with uPVC, even wood effect, or any type of double glazing in a Grade II listed house. Planning won’t allow it and nor will the conservation officer. I personally think sympathetic timber double glazing should be permitted. We can’t as a country be obsessed with ‘net zero’ and the associated costs with being green, while insisting that people have to continue to live in cold draughty 18th and 19th century homes with massive heating bills. Listed buildings need to be brought into the EPC regulations and double glazing should be permitted as long as it is in character with the building

We got permission to reuse the existing wooden windows and put thin heritage double glazed glass units into the existing wooden frames. You can't really tell the difference between them and single glazed unless you look closely. I don't think you will get better than that. Are they really so rotten that they cant be saved? New bits of wood can be put in to replace any rotten bits unless the whole frame is falling apart.
I only say that as it is likely to be cheaper to refurbish than replace with similar quality wood frames.

Hi OP
You are exceptionally unlikely to get permission to change to UPVC and nor should you, it will look terrible, be expensive and not be good for your home. UPVC is not an upgrade, they last around 20 years, new timber will last 100 + years, they will also stop your house breathing and cause you damp problems within a few years.

It is unusual for them all to be beyond repair; you will have to submit a detailed survey of each one you wish to replace. One or two may be approved depending upon your CO.

Magnetic secondary glazing is proven to be more effective and is much cheaper than double glazing, conservation grade or standard. Look at extraglaze or others.

I would suggest you find a heritage joiner, or a sash repair joiner if they are sash, and not a company wanting to sell you new windows.
The listed property owners club or the SPAB are good resources for finding relevant trades.

Also budget for replacing the UPVC ones, once you put in for LBC this is likely to highlight these not having permission (if they don't) and could prompt enforcement.

It’s utterly absurd that the UK won’t allow energy efficient windows to be put in. There are plenty that look the part. The planet is on fire and we are preventing people from burning less fuel. We need a collective head wobble.

Nonsense, lots of listed properties get consent for double glazing. Not all, but in my experience it's not uncommon. UPVC on the other hand is a lot less likely to be approved.

I don’t know whether your neighbours’ properties are listed, but there is no time limit for enforcement for changing a listed building without permission - it isn’t a case of waiting 10 years.

We’ve spent 000’s putting in for planning, with planning consultants as experts included, got refused, now at appeal, waiting for decision

this is a council in Hampshire, widely known as the worst for listed building planning

the “suggestions/demands” they have made to base their refusal on actually pose more of a risk of harm to our house, they don’t know what they are talking about, and they don’t listen to professionals or experts.

i Swear to god, I’ll get these windows done then I’m finding a way to go to war on them.

our current windows are rotten, there is black mould in our house, on our curtains and there are draughts, there are blown panes because of the nonsensical spec they insisted on when the building was converted.

the windows we’ve chosen are far superior in terms of quality, they’re from a company that does listed buildings nationwide all day long, these people are experts, our consultants are experts, but this shower of know-nothings knows better apparently

a whole industry is being supported due to their incompetence to do their actual job, they’re harming our home with their ignorance

I hate them with a passion. They’re incompetent and arrogant

You’re right! Any breach that comes to light is the responsibility of the current owner.

its not nonsense, it depends on where you live. I know for a fact that in my area in the South West it will not be permitted. I have friends who live in Grade II listed houses and they have been refused permission to replace their single glazed sashes with double glazed, the windows they wanted were hand made wooden low profile double glazing, I very much doubt you’d notice the difference but both planning and the conservation officer said no. In the end they had their original windows refurbished but they have oil bills of £500 a month in the winter. No gas in our area.

Each local authority has their own planning policy and will assess each case individually. Whilst they might not generally support replacement of a historic single glazed window with double glazing, there can be mitigating circumstances, especially with grade 2 listed properties.

Your original statement was a sweeping generalisation that the OP will not get consent, which you're trying to justify based on experience with one local authority. IMO that kind of general scare mongering remains "nonsense".

FWIW I am an expert. Part of my job is to submit listed building applications for replacement windows in listed properties and I have submitted countless successful applications for double glazing. Appointing someone who knows what they're doing can be hugely beneficial.

I got permission very easily to replace single glazed with wooded double glazed.
Wooden double glazed came fully painted and not needing repainting for 10 years.

Have a chat with your local authorities conservation officer, check out the guidance online. You would not get permission in my area to put UPVC in a listed building but you would very likely be allowed wooden double glazed. There are ways to improve energy efficiency that also allow for a sympathetic restoration

Definitely get any advice going from planning/civic trust/conservation lot. We are the same listing in a not at all interesting house which was spoilt before conservation became a thing but we still have to comply. We were allowed to replace the sash windows on 1st floor with matching wooden ones with discreet double glazing. They came all ready painted/finished. On the 2nd floor we were NOT allowed to replace them and could only repair. We were allowed to use Ventrolla fittings to improve insulation. We were allowed upvc at the back. We were not allowed to change the porch and front door.

It’s not bizarre. Old properties aren’t built to be sealed. If you put “energy efficient windows” in all older properties, they would all have to be bull dozed within 20 years or so as they wouldn’t be fit to live in. Also you’d wipe out the equity of all these home owners whose homes would have become worthless.

Fair enough, but I don’t think permission is commonly granted, I lived in an area on the outskirts of London a few years ago and people I knew there had the same issues. It was always refused. My personal experience is that some C.O.’s can be very intransigent and inflexible.

@TortephantVentilation does need to be dealt with but it doesn’t mean we need to burns gazillions of gallons of oil. Plenty of old buildings can have double glazed windows. It does not ‘seal’ them.

I agree @BigBirdWaz. They just need opening frequently, same as you'd do with any windows. But then we don't like overly hot homes!

We've lived in a variety of older houses (everything from Tudor to Victorian), none of which were listed, but on the rare occasion the windows needed replacing, we always chose timber as we're not fans of upvc ones. For example, our 400 mill in Wales had horrid 1980s timber windows that were made without any openings! - we replaced these with (double glazed) accoya casements and the extension was oak framed.

When we lived in a very cold/expensive to heat house with an Article 4 direction, we had double glazing at the back (in painted accoya frames), whilst retaining the refurbed single glazing at the front.

COs most definitely have differing views in different parts of the country. Our current Georgian cottage is grade 2 and was listed after it was extensively butchered in 1965 (sadly losing virtually all historic detail inside and out - including now having a fugly integral garage door on the front). Before we purchased it in 2024 the then owner applied for LBC to change a rear dormer window that is a modern addition on a 1960s extension to double glazing and was refused permission...for which we're incredibly grateful!

Some of our windows are 1960s pastiches of Georgian sashes - they're mostly quite chunky compared to the originals we have, but I'd rather be cold/have huge heating bills than have something even more inappropriate. And at least they can be repaired - some are fairly rotten but will be repaired not replaced.

As a general rule it’s acceptable to replace timber single glazed with timber double glazed
There are companies that do specialised conservation windows
The type of fenestration also needs to match the existing.
Of note for some buildings secondary glazing is recommended , so nothing is a definate

Ultimately though it’s a question for the local conservation officer and a listed building application
Some conservation officers will visit the property to advise. Some are happy to give advice based on images of the existing windows and property

As a general rule it’s is prohibited.
Considered opinion is that
We are only guardians of historic buildings and should look first and foremost to the preservation of the historic fabric of listed buildings.

Have you considered secondary glazing OP ?

Thanks for replies! Replacing with timber hadn’t actually occurred to me, I don’t know how I forgot that modern timber windows exist

It’s a funny house as it’s in a row of five cottages built inside the shell of an old oast. The shell of the building is 170+ years old, but the interior was knocked together into housing around the 1970s. I don’t know when the current windows were installed, although I suspect they came sometime between 1850 and 1970! The uPVC windows currently in situ are at the back of the house, which I think is exempt from planning.

There’s secondary glazing (sliding window) on our living room window, but it’s bloody unsightly from the inside. The actual timber frames of the windows are rotting from the outside, so they will have to be replaced as they will just fall out at some point! I’m planning to ring the conservation people tomorrow and ask about replacing with modern timber, and follow up with an email with photos of the rotting timbers. Hopefully they agree 😫

The rear won’t be exempt from the Listed status. In fact the entire cartilage will come within the Listing

I wouldnt say replace with modern timber. What is modern anyway ? Replace with new to match Existing

Agree
We are saving historic building by understanding how the fabric works
They need to breathe

No no no no no. Please don’t do this. It won’t go well. You need to take some time to understand what’s appropriate and what’s more likely than not to be approved. You also need to understand your liability and responsibility. You can’t make any fabric changes without Listed Building Consent.

At minimum for the windows you need LBC, you may need LBC and full PP.

Best cause of action is a pre- planning application.

How long have you owned this property? What else have you done without permission?

You are also very certain about the window condition when you demonstrate zero understanding of your home (eg dating your current windows, oh and what a listed property actually means): you will need full technical surveys of each window before any LBC application is considered.