F rating on EPC in all electric house: what are the consequences?

[DecisionTime123]

Had offer accepted on a house with electric radiators and boiler. I currently live in a flat that's all electric and had no problems so it didn't really register with me. The house needs other work, I wouldn't be able to afford to redo the heating system as well. The agent said oh yes you can have gas laid here, apropos nothing I thought that was odd but dismissed it - but having had the mortgage approved yesterday I went through the rightmove listing again, no EPC rating, then the agent's own listing and there it was - F. Looked on HM Gov website and it's the only house in the road with an F, everyone else is C or D so I assume they've all chosen to have gas laid to the properties. The EPC estimated heating and hot water costs at around £195 a month with the existing system rated as "very poor". Plus I didn't realise the ground floors are solid, so they might need more insulation as well.

I'm buying with a mortgage, borrowing the maximum I can afford. I had a cash budget of £20k to do all the work on it, which was meant to be just flooring, new appliances, a new bathroom and redecorating. The vendors wanted an extra £5k which I would have to pay out of my cash budget; that's left me with £15k so its tight (I was asking on here the other day about doing the conservatory roof and that was a bit of a pipe dream) but if I have to install GCH, after having the pipes laid, where am I going with this? I am on my own in my 60s so taking on a refurb is daunting as it stands.

Could you install solar panels?

I think i would look for another property in your situation - one that has decent central heating already. Dont under estimate how much works cost these days.

£15k for flooring, new appliances, a new bathroom and redecorating is unlikely and it sounds like this house could be a bit of a money pit! I would recommend walking away - more good houses will come on in the next month or so.

Being all electric seems to push the EPC rating down to a ridiculous level for no good reason, especially as gas boilers are supposed to be phased out soon due to environmental concerns.

Often the EPC is affected by incorrect assumptions too, such as the construction of the walls or floors so read it and check it carefully. Query it if something seems unlikely (eg a modern house but it says there's no cavity wall insulation).

Having gas put in is very expensive, don't bother, as gas prices rise it will become much less desirable. Your heating will be more costly but you will only pay one standing charge and won't have gas safety costs.

Long term I would consider a heat pump and solar panels but unless you plan to rent out the property the EPC is information only.

@Webbing just googled on Octopus it says cost would be £8k. Even if I halved that, I'm still going to struggle.

@doglover90 I thought that was reasonable :( but anyway, as you can see I don't need this new issues on top.

Ground floors are usually solid in modern houses because they’re built on a concrete slab, I wouldn’t worry about that.

What does the actual EPC breakdown say? Electric heating seems unlikely to have driven such a poor score on its own?

I definitely wouldn’t bother getting gas installed. It will be pricey and for the money you’d be better off getting a heat pump. If the electric system itself isn’t too old and is efficient I’d just leave it - it might be fine if you aren’t planning to rent out the property, there is a quirk in the EPC methodology that unfairly penalises electric heating.

Electric boiler to radiators absolutely rinses an epc rating. As does a boarded or inaccessible loft. Electric Digital Storage heaters such as Dimplex Quantum would likely make it a D in my experience (if it is a cavity wall construction). So many variables!

@PoemsForTea yes it is cavity wall so that's looking like a cheaper solution then?

Don't trust the epc £. I have lived in homes where the kwh usage is x3 the EPC. I have seen EPCs where they under or overestimate the floor size by 60%. As a general rule, they are bloody shocking.

Is it occupied? If yes, do this:

Go to money supermarket

Go to utilities

Go to gas and electric for a quote to switch supplier

Put in the postcode then select the flat

Just put in yes/no/don't know if it asks a bunch of questions about current suppliers and setups, what you put in does not affect the results you need

Top right corner will show you the actual kwh per year, accurate to within about a month's usage

Underneath will be a list of supplier and costs.

I'd pull out. Try to buy a house that is at least a high EPC D or C if at all possible.

Economic ruin.

@KievLoverTwo its been empty for a while, probate.

So when I googled it, I was getting similar responses coming up - for example on Money Saving Expert - posters saying that EPCs aren't worth the virtual paper they are written on, or that it would be madness to buy a house like this etc. I suppose I am trying to see is there a matter of objective fact here that I can find or, or is it entirely subjective? It's a lovely house, and I have been looking a long time.

I think this might be one where the estate agents skim a little off the value to make it attractive but you are basically buying a house with a £10k discount that needs £50k of work. They had a lot of offers on it, some at asking price - I should image from younger couples who could take a few financial hits and so weren't too worried about the level of refurb needed.

I've also posted here previously that it's next door to a builder and you can see he's done his place up so I wonder could I ask him what he would tackle first vs. what he would say just live with - or would that be too weird?

You can try asking the builder but he might not tell you anything if you’re not paying him!

When you looked at the EPCs for the other houses in the street, what were the differences in the breakdown? You say you assume they had gas installed but you’d be able to see that on the EPC, no need to rely on assumptions. What’s the EPC on your current place - if it has similar heating and insulation it would probably be similar in terms of comfort, or is the insulation much worse on this house?

From what you say, I’d find another property.
its going to be difficult to do all the work you list for 15k and other issues will arise.

i don’t feel this one is for you OP

@yonem - such a good point, see this is how I miss things! And yes, gone back on checked half a dozen houses either side - all the neighbours have C and D ratings, all got mains gas.

@TMMC1 that's the bottom line isn't it. Was it ever a good idea, and maybe this has been timely to find out before I've shelled out anything.

I’m so sorry OP, I think this is a no-go.

EPC's are so ridiculously inaccurate that they need a complete overhaul. I would not make any decision based on it. I would, however, ask the current owners to confirm some of the monthly costs so you have a more accurate idea of what they are likely to be.

@BobblyBobbleHat its probate and the vendors just say "oh we don't know we never lived in it". They had several other offers at asking price so they're not going to help me, they gave me £10k off they feel that's sufficient!

I'd definitely knock on your builder neighbours door and ask what they've had done as your worried about heating costs. You'll check out one neighbour and hopefully get some hints.

In that case I'd just decide how much I liked it and wanted it to be my home. The epc won't be much help either way. My house is really old and the epc is quite low because the measures are all just designed for new builds. However, the thick walls seem to keep the cold out and we don't pay more for our home than we did before. We've got oil heating rather than electric though so that possibly makes a difference as it seems cheaper than gas overall. No gas here at all.

The companies who manage the EPC system will audit a certain percentage of EPCs lodged and the assessor has to provide extra evidence to corroborate their assessment and they can be suspended if they don’t do this. Some are inaccurate of course.
They are a guide and buyers and renters should read the full assessment not the the rating letter so inform themselves what could be done to reduce energy usage.
Since June the process has become more complex with more data required, eg sizes of all windows, so should be more reflective.
I would not buy a property with a rating E-G unless I had a huge budget for improvements.

Fair enough, I think the problem is more what they are measuring rather than the process itself. Like I say, our rating would be pretty rubbish but our home is as cheap to run as the newbuild we had previously, which had a very good rating ( despite being built to far lower standards). The epc therefore has little bearing on the reality of what energy bills will be.

I second this. Our 300 year old house came in as a E rating. But it’s always been cheap to run. Put our buyers off though.

Have you looked into eco 4 grants? You can get a grant towards the cost of installing a heat pump if you’re on certain benefits or dependant on region, under a certain income level (in my area the income limit is 31k). They can also fit solar panels as well under the scheme. The scheme does however end in March which might be too soon for you but is likely to be replaced with something else.