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council tax band G & H to double

765 replies

StrawberryThief1930 · 03/11/2025 13:43

has anyone seen the rumours that the council tax rates for bands G and H are going to double?

I know everything is just rumours at the moment but im worried this one might stick. easy to implement in an existing system and doesn't require the revaluation of thousands of houses etc.

I'm about to buy a G band house. Seriously questioning whether we can afford it. The current council tax is £4k a year. so £8k a year. Over £300 a month more than we had budgeted. we have spreadsheets coming out of our ears trying to check we can afford this house. Buying with a 40% deposit. im sweating...

anyone have the same worries? or further thoughts?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
27
PigletJohn · 20/11/2025 20:52

Tax is not a punishment.

KeepPumping · 20/11/2025 20:58

PigletJohn · 20/11/2025 14:52

Are you thinking that only employed people would pay the poll tax?

Unemployed would get a reduction, but in the brave new world you wouldn"t be unemployed because you feel a bit anxious in busy places for example, I think that is where we are heading.

KeepPumping · 20/11/2025 21:05

NorthXNorthWest · 20/11/2025 20:49

A property sales tax is not going to encourage people to downsize, it might even put people off of upsizing. Most people moving up in house size depend on HPI to offset the cost.

But with HPI the next house is also more expensive?

PigletJohn · 20/11/2025 21:06

And career criminals, foreign oligarchs, owners of newspapers and media companies?

They might be able to avoid income tax, but it's quite hard to hide a house or move it to a tax haven.

DrPrunesqualer · 20/11/2025 21:10

GasPanic · 20/11/2025 13:55

You can partially sell a house. Provided the net wealth is high enough there is always a solution.

Tax based on occupants, that is getting back to poll tax. It won't end well and will be difficult and costly to administer as you point out. It's not going to happen as last time it was attempted there were riots in the streets and it ended Thatcher.

I guess there is a finite chance it could happen in the future under a Tory government. Under Labour ? No way.

Riots in the streets etc
yes there were Although not riots but demonstrations with one being termed a riot
This was because some council areas were being charged £0 !
Westminsters bill was practically zero because businesses were able to pick up most of the tab.
Council taxes in some areas low or zero was Grossly unfair and only because the seats were marginal ( I lived in one at the time ) etc.
The variable £££ around the country was stark

Let’s also not forget this was Thatchers era. An incredibly unpopular PM after the miners strikes, huge loss of jobs, imprisonment without trial !! etc etc etc

The ‘riots’ and demos were just as much about the countries hatred of her as they were about the poll tax.

Let’s not forget
Years later on her death
Ding Dong

NorthXNorthWest · 20/11/2025 21:25

KeepPumping · 20/11/2025 21:05

But with HPI the next house is also more expensive?

It effectively is, in Labour’s hands. It is absolutely a punishment for working hard and deferring gratification. There is a name for screwing over taxpayers with ever-increasing taxes whilst promising change yet doing nothing to address the root of this country’s problems... insanity!

NorthXNorthWest · 20/11/2025 21:36

KeepPumping · 20/11/2025 21:05

But with HPI the next house is also more expensive?

That doesn't matter because HPI is only a problem if you live in a big house apparently...

If it is about unearned or hoarded wealth, why aren’t they proposing additional tax on all gains over inflation on all homes? A quick search on the property threads on MN and on Zoopla will show how even modestly priced homes have shot up in value by virtue of the owner doing nothing more than living in it. Isn't that the definition we are using for unearned wealth?”

DrPrunesqualer · 20/11/2025 22:06

NorthXNorthWest · 20/11/2025 21:36

That doesn't matter because HPI is only a problem if you live in a big house apparently...

If it is about unearned or hoarded wealth, why aren’t they proposing additional tax on all gains over inflation on all homes? A quick search on the property threads on MN and on Zoopla will show how even modestly priced homes have shot up in value by virtue of the owner doing nothing more than living in it. Isn't that the definition we are using for unearned wealth?”

Or rather than taxing those who simply live in their home
Why not tax at point of sale those who develope it.

We can easily see who does this by using building regs approval and planning if it’s used
Any increase in m2 = cgtax

The benefits of this are
developers have to pay it so why not everyone else
Those who develop increase the property price not only making them less affordable but reduce smaller property housing stock

Meanwhile cgtax atm is set at 18% and 28%. So Less than income tax
I believe it should be increased to align with what everyone else pays on their income

Catching those who develop wouldnt be difficult. ATM if you buy a second property LReg are notified and Hmrc put an alert on that property. As soon as it gets sold they know you owe them cgtax. They can easily catch those who try to avoid it. If building regs and planning also put an alert on LReg and Hmrc automatically again as soon as the property is sold Hmrc know you owe them tax and the conveyancer aswell
will know as it will be on LReg as an alert.

rainingsnoring · 20/11/2025 22:08

NorthXNorthWest · 20/11/2025 20:44

Hello Straw Man!

“Everyone already lives somewhere, so supply can’t be the issue”

The fact is and it is a fact, not an opinion, the UK has failed to build enough homes for decades. Another fact: people’s living circumstances constantly change. Adult children trying to leave home, couples separating, families relocating, older people wanting to downsize,
people leaving HMOs. students moving for university. I mean yeah, they all technically “live somewhere” right now, but it’s not where they need or want to be or even can remain.

Taxing people’s homes isn’t going to magic new housing stock into existence, nor is it going to free up the right types of homes in the right places. It just punishes people for government and industry created problems while doing absolutely nothing to fix the underlying problem.

as @DrPrunesqualer said It’s not a special entitlement. Its a home.

Edited

Again, you are wrong that under building is what has caused extreme HPI in recent decades. As both @KeepPumping and I have explained several times, it is bank lending that has caused this. It is not a fact that we don't have enough homes in the UK. We don't have enough in some areas, nor the type that people want to buy in some areas but that isn't quite the same thing.
Taxing people's homes may well encourage downsizing if done sensibly. It would also tend to reduce prices, which is a good thing.

@DrPrunesqualer's comment was in response to mine saying that no one is entitled to see their home price rise over time. People who bought a long time ago, therefore older people in the main, have simply been lucky.

rainingsnoring · 20/11/2025 22:09

NorthXNorthWest · 20/11/2025 21:36

That doesn't matter because HPI is only a problem if you live in a big house apparently...

If it is about unearned or hoarded wealth, why aren’t they proposing additional tax on all gains over inflation on all homes? A quick search on the property threads on MN and on Zoopla will show how even modestly priced homes have shot up in value by virtue of the owner doing nothing more than living in it. Isn't that the definition we are using for unearned wealth?”

They could impose a CGT on primary residences as well as other properties but that would simply gum up the market even more. They should have done this a long time ago.

suburburban · 20/11/2025 22:10

NorthXNorthWest · 20/11/2025 21:25

It effectively is, in Labour’s hands. It is absolutely a punishment for working hard and deferring gratification. There is a name for screwing over taxpayers with ever-increasing taxes whilst promising change yet doing nothing to address the root of this country’s problems... insanity!

Yes exactly and stamp duty to boot.

the government get more SD with higher prices

DrPrunesqualer · 20/11/2025 22:16

rainingsnoring · 20/11/2025 22:08

Again, you are wrong that under building is what has caused extreme HPI in recent decades. As both @KeepPumping and I have explained several times, it is bank lending that has caused this. It is not a fact that we don't have enough homes in the UK. We don't have enough in some areas, nor the type that people want to buy in some areas but that isn't quite the same thing.
Taxing people's homes may well encourage downsizing if done sensibly. It would also tend to reduce prices, which is a good thing.

@DrPrunesqualer's comment was in response to mine saying that no one is entitled to see their home price rise over time. People who bought a long time ago, therefore older people in the main, have simply been lucky.

In terms of property sizes we really haven’t been building enough smaller properties and definately not enough for the disabled and elderly. That’s on developers that make more money on larger detached houses.
Councils need to insist on more 2 bed attached houses and flats. That’s the way our family units are moving aswel.

DrPrunesqualer · 20/11/2025 22:21

rainingsnoring · 20/11/2025 22:09

They could impose a CGT on primary residences as well as other properties but that would simply gum up the market even more. They should have done this a long time ago.

I’ve done cgtax calcs
The idea that everyone has to do this and Hmrc check it all is imo far to complex
The level of paperwork etc and proof etc isn’t workable
I doubt any Govn would ever do it

Simpler to tax area increase for those who develope their home.

Sasssquatch · 21/11/2025 14:49

I’ve not read this whole thread but have had a good scan

i cant see any discussion around what the majority of council tax funds which is (adult) social care. We have an ageing population. Something needs to pay for this. What would we prefer?

PigletJohn · 21/11/2025 14:52

Sasssquatch · 21/11/2025 14:49

I’ve not read this whole thread but have had a good scan

i cant see any discussion around what the majority of council tax funds which is (adult) social care. We have an ageing population. Something needs to pay for this. What would we prefer?

At the moment we have a property tax where the amount due is dependent to some extent on the value of the house.

I have no objection to that, and I want to see some, at least, of the current defects corrected.

pinkspeakers · 21/11/2025 15:07

Ilikewinter · 03/11/2025 14:24

It's not always that simple though. My MIL is in a 4 bed detached and would love a bungalow or 2 bed house but there simply isn't anything in her town, and she doesn't want to move far because of her social life. Oh, she could buy a Mccarthy retirement flat which would be perfect for her but that comes with all the insane fees.

I always find it very hard to believe that there are no two bedroom houses in a town. What town is this?? (bungalows I can believe, but if she's not in a bungalow now it's not clear why the only viable move would be to a bungalow)

pinkspeakers · 21/11/2025 15:10

The speculation (and it is all speculation) that I saw in the FT today is that houses worth over 1.5 million (or, more likely 2 million or possibly more) would pay extra. And that extra would be an average of £2000 a year. Presumably less than that for houses only just over the threshold.

Doesn't sound unreasonable to me, and our house is probably worth over £1.5 million.

And I cannot summon up that much sympathy for the single pensioner who cannot afford to pay this on their £2 million pound house. They should move.

pinkspeakers · 21/11/2025 15:15

Tax should have a bit of logic to it. Why should people in more expensive houses pay more for the same services?

For the same sorts of reasons that people with higher incomes pay more for the same services. It's called redistribution of income and wealth to reduce inequality.

LaserPumpkin · 21/11/2025 15:18

pinkspeakers · 21/11/2025 15:07

I always find it very hard to believe that there are no two bedroom houses in a town. What town is this?? (bungalows I can believe, but if she's not in a bungalow now it's not clear why the only viable move would be to a bungalow)

It really depends on the town. I’ve just looked on Rightmove for both my local town and my mother’s (different towns, both in Southern England) and there are very, very few 2 bed houses and they aren’t any cheaper than larger houses. Some aren’t suitable as they don’t have a downstairs toilet and the stairs wouldn’t work for a stairlift. Most are on estates slightly out of town without public transport access.

We really need more houses built for older downsizers. The property at the moment is all about starter homes and family homes.

Sasssquatch · 21/11/2025 15:21

LaserPumpkin · 21/11/2025 15:18

It really depends on the town. I’ve just looked on Rightmove for both my local town and my mother’s (different towns, both in Southern England) and there are very, very few 2 bed houses and they aren’t any cheaper than larger houses. Some aren’t suitable as they don’t have a downstairs toilet and the stairs wouldn’t work for a stairlift. Most are on estates slightly out of town without public transport access.

We really need more houses built for older downsizers. The property at the moment is all about starter homes and family homes.

In our bougie market town the only houses being built are MacArthur stone type sheltered housing. The theory was this would free up family homes but that hasn’t happened. No families can afford the older generations homes and there has been a huge influx of older people from other areas placing huge pressure on the already strained healthcare system. It’s had a really noticeable effect on the local demographic. Primary schools are closing and shops and pubs and care homes can’t get any staff at all.

PigletJohn · 21/11/2025 15:24

@LaserPumpkin

"We really need more houses built for older downsizers. The property at the moment is all about starter homes and family homes."

I can't help thinking that if a few older people with a million pounds burning a hole in their pocket wanted to buy one, housebuilders would be happy to oblige.

NorthXNorthWest · 21/11/2025 19:02

rainingsnoring · 20/11/2025 22:08

Again, you are wrong that under building is what has caused extreme HPI in recent decades. As both @KeepPumping and I have explained several times, it is bank lending that has caused this. It is not a fact that we don't have enough homes in the UK. We don't have enough in some areas, nor the type that people want to buy in some areas but that isn't quite the same thing.
Taxing people's homes may well encourage downsizing if done sensibly. It would also tend to reduce prices, which is a good thing.

@DrPrunesqualer's comment was in response to mine saying that no one is entitled to see their home price rise over time. People who bought a long time ago, therefore older people in the main, have simply been lucky.

I think my position is clear - I have consistently talked about a shortage of the right houses in the right locations and at no point did I say that credit was not part of the problem.

To avoid repeating myself, I asked ChatGPT to give a balanced assessment of Both: My statement that you quoted (A) and Your reply (B). I did not indicate which was my statement. It is possible that ChatGPT's answer might change depending on the time of day, but first time round this is what is said:

Balanced Assessment of A and B
Both A and B contain legitimate, evidence-backed points, and both oversimplify certain aspects of the UK housing debate. The strongest and most consistent finding across academic literature is that house prices in the UK have been shaped by both supply constraints and credit/monetary conditions, with neither factor able to fully explain long-run UK house-price inflation on its own.
What A gets right
A is correct that the UK has consistently built fewer homes than estimated household formation, particularly in high-demand regions. This view is supported by OBR reports, Bank of England research on supply elasticity, and multiple studies from LSE and Centre for Cities. A is also right to reject the argument that “everyone already lives somewhere” — housing need is tied to household formation, not total population. A is further correct that taxing existing homes does not directly create new supply, and the behavioural effects of such taxes are uncertain.
Where A overstates its case
A treats the existence and scale of a national shortage as completely settled. While most UK policy institutions argue there is an aggregate deficit, some economists question whether the shortage is:

  • national or primarily regional
  • persistent or cyclical
  • based on robust household formation projections
A’s position is strong, but it presents the supply narrative as more universally accepted than it actually is within academic macroeconomics. ✅ What B gets right B is correct that credit expansion, falling interest rates, and mortgage liberalisation played a major role in the rapid house-price inflation from the mid-1990s onward. This is strongly supported by Bank of England and IMF research. B is also right that supply constraints vary significantly by region and property type — some areas have acute shortages, others are closer to equilibrium. B is additionally correct that house-price gains are not a moral entitlement and have been heavily influenced by policy choices, not personal virtue. ❗ Where B overstates its case B downplays the role of supply too strongly. While credit conditions explain rapid growth and volatility, most research shows that constrained supply magnifies the price impact of cheap credit, especially in the South East. B is also too definitive in suggesting the UK does not have a shortage at all — this position is held by a minority of economists, not the mainstream. Finally, B’s confidence that taxing housing would meaningfully drive downsizing is not strongly supported; evidence on this is mixed. ⚖️ Fully Neutral Summary The most accurate and balanced conclusion is: A is right that persistent under-building and planning constraints have contributed to long-term affordability problems, but it slightly overstates how unanimous the evidence is. B is right that credit expansion and monetary policy were major drivers of post-1990s house-price inflation, but it understates the importance of supply constraints. Together they describe the full picture: UK house prices reflect both constrained supply and highly elastic credit. Neither explanation is sufficient on its own.

I then asked it which was closer to the truth

🧠 The technically correct, nuance-maximising answer:
B explains the boom; A explains the floor.
Cheap credit inflated prices rapidly (B).
Restricted supply prevented those prices from adjusting or normalising (A).
Economists don’t see this as a binary — it’s an interaction.

I asked what it meant by nuance-maximising

🧠 Why use that phrase at all?
Because people on housing forums typically argue A vs B like it’s a football match.
But the actual academic research says:

  • A is partly right
  • B is partly right
  • Neither is fully right on its own
  • The real explanation comes from how they combine
That’s what the phrase is trying to signal: “I’m giving you the version that would satisfy both an economist and a fair-minded reader.”
Araminta1003 · 21/11/2025 19:35

Just on the “Ageing demographic issue”, is this really a baby boomer cohort issue that is a temporary problem across the next 20 or so years? The money is actually there to support this generation fully in terms of NHS and social care, all tied up in their housing (for many of them). The politicians just are not explaining it properly to them. As someone who will possibly benefit from a large inheritance from the baby boomer generation potentially, I can positively say we would be happy to share if it gets the economy more “efficient” again. The problem we have is witnessing wasting and inefficiency.
Perhaps they should change inheritance tax from estate tax to those who receive it somehow? Just an idea.
I do still firmly believe a national health service is in principle a good idea. If it can be reformed to be more efficient with AI. There is a ton of wastage and I would like more local accountability rather than this down the big black NHS hole thing that we do have. My issue with the NHS is not having one person to talk to, but being dependent on the “system”. I believe it could become a lot more personalised with the right technology.

GasPanic · 21/11/2025 21:40

Araminta1003 · 21/11/2025 19:35

Just on the “Ageing demographic issue”, is this really a baby boomer cohort issue that is a temporary problem across the next 20 or so years? The money is actually there to support this generation fully in terms of NHS and social care, all tied up in their housing (for many of them). The politicians just are not explaining it properly to them. As someone who will possibly benefit from a large inheritance from the baby boomer generation potentially, I can positively say we would be happy to share if it gets the economy more “efficient” again. The problem we have is witnessing wasting and inefficiency.
Perhaps they should change inheritance tax from estate tax to those who receive it somehow? Just an idea.
I do still firmly believe a national health service is in principle a good idea. If it can be reformed to be more efficient with AI. There is a ton of wastage and I would like more local accountability rather than this down the big black NHS hole thing that we do have. My issue with the NHS is not having one person to talk to, but being dependent on the “system”. I believe it could become a lot more personalised with the right technology.

I think the problem is a relatively small percentage are willing to release that equity from housing and instead expect the state (everyone) to pay for their social care while they continue to expect society to fund them residing in an increasingly impractical and costly to maintain house.

Personally I think increasing inheritance tax is a good idea, as it is taking the money from people after they don't need it any more to pay for the services they have received. However any attempt to try and change the rules on inheritance tax is normally met by absolute outrage.

KeepPumping · 23/11/2025 19:32

NorthXNorthWest · 21/11/2025 19:02

I think my position is clear - I have consistently talked about a shortage of the right houses in the right locations and at no point did I say that credit was not part of the problem.

To avoid repeating myself, I asked ChatGPT to give a balanced assessment of Both: My statement that you quoted (A) and Your reply (B). I did not indicate which was my statement. It is possible that ChatGPT's answer might change depending on the time of day, but first time round this is what is said:

Balanced Assessment of A and B
Both A and B contain legitimate, evidence-backed points, and both oversimplify certain aspects of the UK housing debate. The strongest and most consistent finding across academic literature is that house prices in the UK have been shaped by both supply constraints and credit/monetary conditions, with neither factor able to fully explain long-run UK house-price inflation on its own.
What A gets right
A is correct that the UK has consistently built fewer homes than estimated household formation, particularly in high-demand regions. This view is supported by OBR reports, Bank of England research on supply elasticity, and multiple studies from LSE and Centre for Cities. A is also right to reject the argument that “everyone already lives somewhere” — housing need is tied to household formation, not total population. A is further correct that taxing existing homes does not directly create new supply, and the behavioural effects of such taxes are uncertain.
Where A overstates its case
A treats the existence and scale of a national shortage as completely settled. While most UK policy institutions argue there is an aggregate deficit, some economists question whether the shortage is:

  • national or primarily regional
  • persistent or cyclical
  • based on robust household formation projections
A’s position is strong, but it presents the supply narrative as more universally accepted than it actually is within academic macroeconomics. ✅ What B gets right B is correct that credit expansion, falling interest rates, and mortgage liberalisation played a major role in the rapid house-price inflation from the mid-1990s onward. This is strongly supported by Bank of England and IMF research. B is also right that supply constraints vary significantly by region and property type — some areas have acute shortages, others are closer to equilibrium. B is additionally correct that house-price gains are not a moral entitlement and have been heavily influenced by policy choices, not personal virtue. ❗ Where B overstates its case B downplays the role of supply too strongly. While credit conditions explain rapid growth and volatility, most research shows that constrained supply magnifies the price impact of cheap credit, especially in the South East. B is also too definitive in suggesting the UK does not have a shortage at all — this position is held by a minority of economists, not the mainstream. Finally, B’s confidence that taxing housing would meaningfully drive downsizing is not strongly supported; evidence on this is mixed. ⚖️ Fully Neutral Summary The most accurate and balanced conclusion is: A is right that persistent under-building and planning constraints have contributed to long-term affordability problems, but it slightly overstates how unanimous the evidence is. B is right that credit expansion and monetary policy were major drivers of post-1990s house-price inflation, but it understates the importance of supply constraints. Together they describe the full picture: UK house prices reflect both constrained supply and highly elastic credit. Neither explanation is sufficient on its own.

I then asked it which was closer to the truth

🧠 The technically correct, nuance-maximising answer:
B explains the boom; A explains the floor.
Cheap credit inflated prices rapidly (B).
Restricted supply prevented those prices from adjusting or normalising (A).
Economists don’t see this as a binary — it’s an interaction.

I asked what it meant by nuance-maximising

🧠 Why use that phrase at all?
Because people on housing forums typically argue A vs B like it’s a football match.
But the actual academic research says:

  • A is partly right
  • B is partly right
  • Neither is fully right on its own
  • The real explanation comes from how they combine
That’s what the phrase is trying to signal: “I’m giving you the version that would satisfy both an economist and a fair-minded reader.”

Just look at the facts. When the anti-immigration thing gets fully rolling look out if you are trying to sell anything even remotely overpriced or undesirable, and depending on what CT nonsense is rolled out this week, that could make certain property "undesirable" as well.

https://thenegotiator.co.uk/news/land-new-homes/new-build-property-sales-drop-to-lowest-in-over-15-years/