Survey on Bungalow - Dormer with no planning permission due to age it was built

[Needtorelax1]

Hi everyone,
looking for some opinions and advice! In the process of buying a beautiful 3 bed bungalow…built in 1950. Two bedrooms originally and the owners had a dormer made upstairs in April 1973. All plans can be seen etc.
however, due to the age of the dormer and when it was built there isn’t any planning permission or building regs as they simply weren’t available at the time!y solicitor seems to think this is absolutely fine but I’m so nervous that the survey will say something awful with regards to the dormer! Has anyone bought a property with an extension that was built back before planning permission was a thing? I so desperately want the property and I am just on pins as to what the survey will say!!

It sounds like he is unhappy about the steps up to the bedroom and not being suitable for children. Or he may be concerned about fire safety and how they would leave. Presumable there is an opening window up there and you could have a escape ladder.

It's likely to be poorly insulated and need improvement. That wont necessarily be cheap and you could get a builder to quote. If on universal credit you may be able to get a grant for loft insulation.

What does the EPC say, read the full document.

There is a window opening yes..an the stairs are something that I will be improving later on…so it’s on my list..I think I worry about selling it on if I ever move later on

What? That tiny little hatch is the door to the bedroom or is there a regular sized door?

If that’s just the access to the loft space, that’s fine.

If you were converting the first floor of a bungalow now, the fire regulations that would apply are that the window of the room has to be suitable for means of escape in terms of its size and height from the floor. If this is not possible, you would create a protected route to the outside via fire doors. It would also need a proper stair.

I would not get bogged down by the building regulations because as we’ve said up thread, the conversion is too old for them to apply.

I would, however, want to be reassured that this room is safe for a young person to get out of in an emergency.

haha yes so that little door is just access to the loft! There is a staircase up to the bedroom with a door etc.
The window does open out fully aswell….think I need to just wait for the solicitor to have a look on Monday..she has said she isn’t concerned about it..it doesn’t help that they have messaged at 5pm on a Saturday when I can’t speak to anyone 🤦‍♀️

Ok then, re the access, but if you're going to improve it then you could also add an emergency escape ladder through the window if that's a worry. But honestly, expecting a conversion done in the 1970s to conform to current regulations is one of the ridiculous things that a surveyor has to point out - it doesn't mean it's a concern.

Ok…so all is not lost? I really really love this bungalow and don’t want to lose it!

Bear in mind that it's literally his job to tell you if things don't meet building regs. You already know things don't meet building regs, because right then, building regs weren't around. Even if they were around, they probably wouldn't meet building regs because they were and are changed all the time. If you did a loft conversion 10 years ago, there's a chance that even though they would comply at that time, they wouldn't meet future building regs because the amount of head space you need is different, or the size of the window, or the pitch of the stairs.

Is anything listed as actually dangerous there? Or anything you are physically worried about? Have you been up there yourself? Did you feel comfortable walking up the stairs, or did they feel too steep? Are there handrails, or can you add them? Is there a big enough velux, or can you improve what's there? Does it feel warm enough, or do you need to add insulation?

Nothing in there is insurmountable, but just take apart what he's written line by line, think if it's something that actually concerns you or you feel is dangerous. Then figure out how much time, effort and money it would be to fix, and is it worth it to you.

And selling it won't be a concern, it will be exactly the same as you're going through now. Some people might be put off by it, most people wouldn't.

You don’t need a ladder if the window is big enough and low enough to climb out of. Generally, first floor windows are no more than 4.5m from the ground and this is deemed an acceptable height to escape from.

There is about 40k sitting in the bungalow when it is all done. I will be spending about £25k getting it all up to speed. There is nothing dangerous that I can see at all other than the stair rail which is something I will be getting added on. My daughter is 13 so isn’t a young child and knows that she needs to be careful for now until I get one added. Nothing is listed as dangerous other than not meeting building regs and fire access…but surely this is the same as any other upstairs bedroom. I know in my old marital home which was far newer than this we would have had to have jumped!! So an emergency ladder is definitely something to consider. But other than that and maybe insulation I think it’s fine!

How many owners have there been since it was put in? It’s probably worth getting a structural survey just to make sure that building methods and materials are fit for purpose.

Just the one owner xx

But have been advised by solicitor and surveyors that a level 2 is perfectly fine

A level 2 survey is fine. It will have picked up actual issues like problems with the roof or structural concerns like subsidence.

I get it’s worrying for you, but it doesn’t sound like you have anything to put you off buying.

Thankyou so much @BlouseyBrowne
i totally get that I’m a stress head and the survey is scary yes…I’ve just gone through a horrible divorce so I’m a bit of a shell of myself but I know im a strong woman and can do this! It’s a beautiful bungalow and so close to my daughter’s school etc it’s in the perfect location I just don’t want to lose it xx

So it's lacking a hand rail - if you have a drill that's an easy fix. https://clairedouglasstyling.co.uk/post/how-to-install-a-beautiful-budget-stair-
handrail

You might want something better if one side of the steps is open - not essential immediately but if you want to sell again.

Escape ladder can be had for £60 at screwfix. Then if the property doesnt have them fit smoke alarms. The fire separation between the dormer and the rest of the building may not be up to current standards but I doubt that would put many people off. You can get the fire brigade to come and give you advice if you are worried.

Here's where you find the full EPC and while they are often pretty useless as it tends to be all assumptions it may give some clue about insulation needs. www.gov.uk/find-energy-certificate

Building control can’t take action anymore because of how long it’s been there - so aslong as it’s structurally sound you’re fine. There’s nothing to indemnify as there’s so risk.

Thankyou so much for this. Really useful. I am having a full rewire and all new combi boiler and new smoke alarms etc so this will all be done. Am I overthinking all of this? Maybe I need to remember that it’s 50 years old and still standing so I shouldn’t worry too much xx

Yes you’re overthinking. Your survey should give you all the reassurance you need.

A lot of fires in the home are when cooking. Electrical faults come next - but you are getting the place rewired. Get her fairy lights and tell her no candles up there.

The insulation is actually a more serious concern. The only way to do that properly on a sloping roof can be to take the roof off. The alternative is to fix insulation inside the room which both reduces available space and means redecorating. You dont have to do that immediately but she might find the room freezing in winter and too hot in summer if it isnt well insulated.

Actually you said you had plans - does it show any insulation on the sloping areas? I'd be looking for some sort of insulation board having been used.

I wish you every happiness in your new home. I used to work in building control for years (but I now lecture on it) so I have seen first hand how intimidating the process of surveys and buying property can be. I really don’t think you have anything to worry about.

New Builds have a pretty grim reputation

As a single parent who is currently selling my first property- a 1950s dormer bungalow without planning permission for two extensions (!) and buying an older property, I would really recommend having a chat with the surveyor. Mine called me about my level 2 survey I was in a spin about and completely put my mind at ease. He also said it was a really good purchase and a great property, which was so helpful when I didn’t have a partner to help support my decision.

let the experts do their jobs, and enjoy your new home when it happens!

Thankyou so very much for this 🥹 much needed xxx