Housing association contractor wants tenant to sign damage waiver.

[JenniferBooth]

A friend of mine has received a letter from the HA saying the kitchen is due to be renewed.
Part of the letter says this
"Kitchen appliances may be moved by our operatives as long as the disclaimer was signed at survey stage
And in bold

please note by signing this disclaimer you are agreeing that (company name) will not be held responsible for any damages whilst moving appliances

Ive googled and come across a couple of other cases. (one on the site that must not be named) and one that went to the ombudsman

This screams "we are not insured"
Surely they should have public liablilty insurance and CAR Friend cant move appliances on his own due to mobility issues
So this means elderly and/or disabled people are going to be more at risk of damage to their property. If they cant move their appliances and sign this disclaimer the contractors dont have to bother about being careful with the tenants property safe in the knowledge that it wont come back on them
It stinks!!!!

They will be insured as they are working at the behest of the housing association. It's much more likely that they're protecting themselves from people falsely claiming they've damaged items moving them and trying to claim for new replacements or compensation.

So i assume they will be doing the same with home owners. Shall ask them

They do this all the time with any work where items could potentially be damaged. My dad had to have polystyrene tiles removed and had to sign that they weren't responsible for damage to any furniture, ornaments etc

Of course they’ll be insured. What a bizarre post.
surely you’d just move the items yourself?

So what happens when they renew a kitchen in sheltered housing. An 85 year old man cant be expected to move a washing machine

Here is a home OWNER posting about damage caused by a plumber
She Got "he SHOULD have public liability insurance If he hasnt got it its his problem

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4767886-to-ask-the-plumber-to-replace-my-damaged-items
vs HA tenant "of course he will be insured What a bizarre post

HA's have approved contractors that they use. They have to be dbs checked and have the relevant qualifications and insurances otherwise the HA won't have them on their list or use them. A homeowner has to do those checks themselves or take the risk. What's bizzare is that you don't understand that. If the tenant can't move items themself then they either sign the waiver, ask friends or family to move things, or hire someone specifically to move the appliances.

It’s just the contractor protecting themselves from endless claims. They will of course be insured. I honestly can’t imagine who would take issue with this

I think they’re right to do it. I know people who work for housing associations and it’s not uncommon for tenants to make even false claims.

The OP likes nothing more than to complain about housing associations and how hard done by she is.

Got it Homeowners good Tenants bad.

@PaintDecisions Do you have trouble with reading and comprehension Its not me this is about Its a friend who rents off another HA.

Well i guess tech can solve the problem all round

Funny how you always think HA tenants are hard done by. A house owner who pays directly for the work will also have to sign a disclaimer, yes. Same for a private tenant. Your friend isn't being somehow targeted because they rent through a HA.

But you are at least consistent in jumping to conclusions that HAs are out to get everyone on their books.

You also have a serious chip on your shoulder about being a HA tenant not a homeowner. No one apart from you gives a shit about your household status. It's a very strange thing to be so aggressive about.

Watch them moving the stuff and make sure they are careful. Most workers are careful, believe it or not, if they are blatantly not being stop them.

No one apart from you gives a shit about your household status

Really???

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1346374-to-think-that-elderly-people-living-alone-in-3-4-bed-council-houses-should-not-have-a-choice-about-whether-they-want-to-stay-there

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4605996-aibu-to-think-social-housing-homes-should-be-temporary

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4642838-to-think-councils-should-move-people-to-smaller-properties-when-kids-move-out

Must have been imagining these threads and the hundrerds of others saying the same

"please note by signing this disclaimer you are agreeing that (company name) will not be held responsible for any damages whilst moving appliances"
Is that legal?
Yes they may have insurance, but that is effectively a complete get out clause, denying the tenant the right to claim on said insurance if the company breaks their appliance. It looks like the tenant can't even make a claim on their own insurance if their washing machine gets dropped or whatever.

This is the worrying part. Recently scaffolders were throwing scaffolding off the roof narrowly missing the cars in the car park.

Then you report them, because that’s not OK.

Deductibles can be high in housing. Which means you might have insurance but the contractor/HA is paying, even if they do. Better to have the signed waiver.

The 84 year old man who can’t move the washing machine. One of the reasons for HA and Council housing is to provide affordable rent for lower income people. Meaning you can save and afford a man with a van if you don’t like the service offered. Or pay for repairs to an appliance if it is damaged. People in private rent flats still have to pay but they have no wiggle room on their budget. There is an interesting helplessness, where people look around for someone else who can pay, someone else who can do the thing, someone else whose responsibility it is. I’m a leftie. But there is a line. This helplessness is bad for people.

You want the contractors to move the machine, at their own risk, pay if it’s broken, at their own risk, do all the work, take all the risk, and do an excellent job. Great. Who’s paying? Because the 84 yo isn’t. Rents are lower so the amount for repairs and renovations is lower.

That doesn’t mean people who own are better in some way. The opposite, actually. Everyone should take responsibility for themselves.

I’m sorry this is very weird. A housing association is a large corporate entity. It has nothing in common with a self employed plumber.

of course them and their contractors are insured

No one claims on an insurance policy for a damaged fridge/ microwave. It would be massively cheaper to buy a new one than the excess. The insurance is not relevant.

They can’t exclude liability for negligence.

so if they drop negligently then they’d be liable.

and in most cases dropping it etc would be negligent unless for example tenant left a difficult to avoid tripping hazard on the floor that couldn’t be moved etc

its not outrageous

As far as I know, you usually have to sign an agreement that you will have the room clear of all appliances.
Owner/occupier would have to do it themselves or the workmen will refuse to start work until it's cleared.
Private rental, the same, but it would be the landlord's responsibility as it's usually their appliances.
Social Rent. The appliances usually belong t the tenant so it is neither the landlord nor the builder's responsibility to move them.

It seems like the workmen are being more understanding than usual. They will do the work if the tenant cannot move the items themself, but they cannot take legal responsibility for them. It seems fair.

It’s not this is because you’re supposed to clear the kitchen yourself before the work starts

exactly as a homeowner would be expected to- not sure if you realise OP but builders don’t actually pack up your stuff for you no matter what your home owner status is 🙄

so if you WANT them to help you have to sign to say they don’t take responsibility for damages. If you don’t want that help, just do it yourself or pay someone you trust more to

@AquaPeer they still can’t exclude liability for negligence. You cannot agree that someone won’t be liable for you if they’re negligent.

But they can refuse to do the works if appliances aren’t moved