Vague survey - what would count as a rating 3?

[Nomorediy]

Sequel to my last post on my buyers' survey.

I would like to know what issues you have had with houses - buying or selling - that come under category 3 (urgent, requires immediate attention) in a survey.

To recap: my first time buyers have had a survey done that is vague and unusual. It gives a long list of things that seem to fall into category 2 - require attention but are not serious or urgent.

They seem to have taken fright at the fact that this is not a fully renovated property or a new build, but a 200 year old grade 2 listed cottage that requires constant upkeep. They have sent a list of survey findings that apparently I must do something about.

I did all the jobs I could do without planning permission already. Outstanding things are to retile part of the roof - it isn't leaking or damaged - and to rewire in one area that is safe but not compliant with 2022 building regs.

I gave the buyers a 15k discount so they could pay for the above on their own and take the time to obtain listed building consents. My house was listed at 600k. A fully renovated house of this size in the same area would be listed at 650k.

Are any of the below things from their survey category 3? Separately, are any my issue?

Roof slopes should be upgraded
Loft should be better ventilated
In future, some timbers may need to be replaced
Repoint chimney
Improve some rainwater fittings
Repoint front elevation 'in due course'
Replace some internal doors
Obtain quotation to have basement tanked (although this was done two years ago with full guarantee and indemnity)
Upgrade electrical system
Fit more smoke alarms
Replace older radiators
Additional drainage to rear patio area.

Please help me with how best to communicate to buyers that this is general stuff that comes with buying a house. The agent and I are tearing our hair out.

Thank you!

The last house we were going to buy only has level 3s! It didn’t come as massive surprise.

water ingress, extension pulling away from the house, rotten timber joists, non opening windows, ongoing leaks etc etc.

Thank you so much.

If its category 3 does that affect home insurance?

Some of those things are potentially important though. Rainwater fittings in a poor state can cause problems with render allowing water to get into the property. Repointing the chimney is also likely to be something to do with water ingress.

we had the same thing with the roof on the place we were buying although it was the least of our worries in terms of immediate issues to repair.

I can see how these things could sound scary to a first time buyer. Not really sure how you reassure them. Are they asking for more money off?

We didn’t get that far. None of it made the place uninhabitable - just needed a lot of work. We ended up pulling out because the vendor wouldn’t allow any reduction and we would have needed the money to fix the severe water ingress immediately. He took it off the market.

They have said they are not asking for a discount. We are not quite sure what they want exactly.

I think perhaps they want reassurance that they will not have to spend tens of thousands of pounds urgently.

The house was listed to reflect work would be necessary, but not urgent, to the roof. If it had been fully renovated it would have listed for much more and sold for around 40k more per my agent, who exclusively sells the early Victorian and late Georgian houses in this small conservation area.

I think your buyers have taken fright and aren’t up for the constant maintenance an old house brings.

Early 30s and I was buying a 1930s house with the usual - repoint brickwork, replace flashings and so on - and nearly pulled out. Thankfully DH is more rationale and used to older houses, and explained how these things work.

Tell your buyer it’s priced as seen and they’re welcome to withdraw their offer. Unless there’s something fundamental - needs underpinning, breach of regs etc., movement, dry rot - I think it’s unusual to expect the seller to rectify the issues.

They need to go an buy a new build, we sold an 1820s home it was a nightmare as the people buying hadn’t a clue about a grade 2 listed house.

we bought a 1610 cottage and didn’t even bother with a survey, it was probate we knew it hadn’t been touched since the 70s and needed a ton of work.

Some people shouldn’t buy old homes, unless they have spare cash.

On this house (about a hundred years old) which hadn’t been renovated in 50 years, the survey started with “It’s a solid house for its age and state of renovation” which I felt set the tone nicely. It certainly didn’t put us off.

When we sold our place (also a small conservation area), we had odd questions and also their surveyor said our renovations didn’t comply with Building Regs. They didn’t say what that meant for the sale - it was just a comment left lurking in the air (we had building control sign off so I didn’t actually care what their surveyor said). They did just get on with the sale but these odd comments with no actual explanation as to what they mean / are thinking are really annoying.

Maybe you just go back and say the house was priced accordingly. And it’s 200 years old.

Our FTB also thought ours would be low maintenance because it was fully renovated. Unfortunately not going to happen on a 150 year old building!

Your conservation area doesn’t happen to be in London does it?!

My son is buying a Victorian house, which appeared immaculate.. There were loads of category 3 issues raised. The chimney stack was category 3, but in the body of the report it was clear there were no issues. The “ immediate action” was to inspect yearly. There are a couple of serious issues, 1 being that it needs a total rewire, and this was not obvious on viewing. Another is that the render is causing damp. So he will negotiate a reduction, because it means an unexpected lot of work followed by total redecoration I think surveyors need to keep category 3 for stuff that really does require immediate action, and also further classify that as major or minor works. Some of it would also really be helped by sellers producing a buyers pack with certificates of work, available to the surveyor. The survey was very useful though, because it very clearly explained the ongoing maintenance needed for old houses, and the need for traditional building methods. Once my son got over the shock of it, he was able to make an informed decision to proceed.
@Nomorediy Have your buyers showed you the survey?

Thanks so much. It sounds like you and the surveyor have been really helpful to your son.

I have seen the buyers' survey. It does not categorise 1-3. They have I think come to believe that all jobs are urgent which has got them stuck.

Nothing is causing leaks or damp or electrical/gas safety issues.

We will try to help them understand better.

I'm not in London but in the south east.

My agent said because building regs change all the time you won't find a fully compliant house or flat anywhere unless it is a new build.

I think my response would be along the lines of:

"Dear buyer, I have already priced the house to take into consideration the items of renovation remaining, and a further 15k as a gesture of goodwill. I understand that you are nervous, however a historic, listed building requires ongoing care and attention.

Please feel free to have whatever further inspections you would like for your own comfortability, however the price will remain as is. I would appreciate it if you could indicate your time lines as I would like to progress with the sale, either with you (preferred), or with an alternate buyer"

None of those are level 3 in my opinion. They all seem to be upgrades they might want to consider in future but not major imminent problems.

To be honest I don’t think these buyers will ever be satisfied. Tell them to go and buy a new build instead. Then put yours back on the market and and hopefully get buyers with more realistic expectations of a 200 year old house.

Replace internal doors, seriously ?!

Christ, who is the surveyor? They clearly are unfamiliar with listed buildings from that list.

Yes good luck to them expecting to ‘have to repoint the chimney straight away.’ It’s listed. Add six months for planning lol.

Very good!

This is the summary of their survey. It doesn’t scream nightmare death trap to me.

OVERALL OPINION
The subject of this report is a mature property, built before modern materials and techniques were
incorporated which provide improved protection against building movement/cracks, damp ingress,
condensation, rot, heat loss etc. This factor needs to be considered when assessing the property
as a suitable proposition, as these inherent shortcomings can and often do result in increased running, maintenance, improvement and repair costs.
Having said the above, whilst we have uncovered a number of matters you should be aware of and will need to attend to, having due regard to its age, we found no evidence of what we would
describe as unusual or major structural disrepair.
A fair number of the items highlighted within the body of this report, to the structure of the house at
least, are to be anticipated on a property which is now around two centuries old.

Internally
however, it is generally fairly tired and would benefit from a level of improvement/modernisation.

It is considered to represent a suitable proposition for purchase.

@Nomorediy even on a new build the building regulations it has to comply with are the ones that were in force when planning was granted, at least that was the case when we bought our house a few years ago. Not sure how any old house could comply with current regulations fully.

One actual firm recommendation from their survey is to re-cover a flat felt roof. It is not leaking or damaged but the survey recommends it is tiled.

Anyone got a ballpark view of the likely cost of replacing a flat roof? It’s not large. This is a 700 square foot cottage with a small flat roof kitchen extension at the back.

Don’t pander to your buyers by getting any work done.

The surveyors ‘overall opinion’ says all they need to know. . Due to its age it’s to be expected that it’s not all done to modern standards and a level of upkeep will be required. No evidence of any unusual or major structural disrepair, and it’s a suitable proposition for purchase.

That sounds like a very good survey on a 200 year old house. If they’re not happy with that then there will be no pleasing them.

What is your agent doing? They really need to step up and nip this in the bud. If they exclusively deal in older properties they will have seen this lots of times.
Some surveyors are absolute pollocks, what is the point about it being tired internally?! How dare they pass comment like that, completely out of their remit. I’d be tempted to report them.

Agent’s working really hard to try and manage these buyers. He’s definitely not asking me to do anything. He’s been through the survey point by point with them multiple times and explained it is highlighting the routine maintenance jobs they should account for in the years ahead. My survey was the same. The thing is I bought the house with £50k set aside for ongoing improvements and spend regularly on top. I seriously think this is what the buyers can’t accept - that pretty little cottages built in 1819 cost money for upkeep and that this is a sound investment.

I think you’re close to the point where you just have to say to them, take it or leave it.