Where to move in London for secondary

[LondonSchoolsHelp]

Feel like this is a classic topic but haven’t found a recent one.

I’ve got a boy and girl, currently year 2 (summer born) and preschool (autumn born). We live in an area with lots of well-off families and private schools (which we can’t afford), a couple of super selective grammars (which are 95% Asian - we are white and I wouldn’t want the kids to be in such a small minority, even if they got in). As a result the local comp isn’t really a comp, results not great and there is a drugs problem.

Planning to move to the catchment of a good state school in the next couple of years. But where?

It’s very early to say but I don’t think DS would get a place in a super selective grammar - he is in the top handful in his class (and is summer born) but it doesn’t sound like this would be enough (or is it too early to tell at 6?). I’d be more confident about DD who is only in preschool but ahead of the game (typical girl). But I think really for safety we are looking for a good comprehensive.

I work near Liverpool Street and DH works in Victoria, though I am in the office 3-4 days a week and DH only 1-2. We’ve always lived East but I don’t think there are any areas near us that fit the bill.

Our house budget is probably £1.3-£1.4m if we were to move now…who knows in a couple of years.

I feel sad as love our current area and we have made so many friends here, but I can’t see things changing at the local school, even with the VAT increase. All the parents at our (excellent state) primary are just saving up for secondary.

So where should we go and when?

Should say we’d also consider moving outside London too, though wouldn’t want a commute more than 1hr as I work long hours and would like to see the kids!

I’d make a list of state comprehensives by GCSE performance and then see what you can afford in the catchments.

Good comprehensives in London and much of the southeast are likely to have a large ethnic minority intake.

We moved outside London where we don’t need to spend 1.4m on a house, and therefore can afford tutors and private school (if needed, but presently our dc is doing brilliantly in comprehensive). Our dc is in a school which has a big Asian population (probably about 50%) - the top sets tend to be dominated by of Indian, Pakistani, and Hong Kong kids who are put under considerable pressure to achieve excellent results by their parents. This is a cultural norm, I think you might just have to get used to it if you want a well performing school of any kind. Lots of tutoring at all ages, even parents who openly acknowledge their child won’t be suitable for the grammars across the county boundary, or the superselectives in our own county. Tutoring and weekend crammers are a huge industry as the quality of state education is increasingly patchy, even at the good schools a shortage of teachers can be a big problem.

Alexandra Park School in Muswell Hill is apparently great, you’d need to live very close to it I think, to have a chance to get in.
then there’s Latymyr grammar school as an option too if you lived there (just check the catchment postcodes for Latymyr because it’s certain postcodes in north London allowed to apply).

Sorry that’s Latymer (spelled it wrong)

Graveney school in the Furzedown area, basically between Tooting and Streatham. Northern line so easy to get in to zone 1, mixed population with a good ‘spread’ of different cultures.

Used to be a grammar , now it has a small ‘selective’ process with the majority of students coming from within the catchment. Downsides are it’s a very large school with the junior buildings in one side of the (very quiet, non-through road) and the senior building on the other. Still with a population of 2000 odd students though. My kids haven’t found this intimidating at all though and they came from a very small, friendly primary school.

Often described as 2 schools in 1 - it’s a London city school and you just can’t get away from that. There are some problems. However if your kids work hard the school is (I’ve found) excellent. As is the sixth form. Several students join the sixth form from London privates. My eldest is studying aerospace engineering at uni, my middle is currently doing 4 science A levels and my youngest is likely to get mostly 9’s at GCSEs.

I would have considered moving out to Greater London but the kids had already been through too many changes - I wanted to keep them close to their friends - and tbh I didn’t really know what those options would be. There are certain downsides to a London city school, however mine have a great selection of friendly groups and are thriving.

Its a difficult decision to make - good luck!

The schools in Sutton all have a good reputation so far as I am aware and it's easily commutable to London (I did it for 8 years).

My DS is a white child in a super selective grammar school where over 90% kids are non white, mainly Asian but also SE Asian.
I was a bit trepidatious but honestly it has not been any sort of issue. Plenty of friends, plenty of socialising.
I know that wasn’t the question but just as a point.

Friendship groups, not friendly groups!

Hinchley Wood secondary school is excellent. You need to be in one of the 4 feeder schools (you can find them online).

Thank you - just to be clear, when I mentioned the ethnic mix - what we are actively looking for is diversity.

50% would be great. I am not looking to avoid ethnic minorities and apologies if you got that from my post somehow.

The issue is that the local grammar is not at all diverse - it’s 95% Indian/pakistani (Muslim). I would like to find a school where there is a true mix of backgrounds, not 95% of anything.

Don't know the schools in the north that well but South Kingston/Richmond way has some very good excellent state options.

The "good" schools in sutton are mostly private or grammar I think? which would somewhat negate this point somewhat for OP? There are excellent state high schools a bit further out in Epsom, Woking or Guildford (grammar and comp) though.

I have friends with children in excellent state schools in the wandsworth/Wimbledon area but I think they're often semi-selective and/or religious.

Most Bromley schools are good.

The Sutton grammars do have less white dc but there is maybe a higher population of ethic minorities in the catchments (some
of the grammars have catchment priorities). Harris in Sutton has good results as does Glenthorne.

The furthest distance offered is absolutely tiny for the non selective stream at Graveney though - something like 0.6km last year? So if this one appeals, you need to be really careful with where you buy to make sure you would be within distance without relying on the grammar stream for your DS.

I always heard that in Graveney you need to be in the top sets for the best results. Other comps get similar results without selective places.

A lot of the best London schools are faith based.

If you are catholic and do attend church, St Andrews in Leatherhead is, I believe, the top state non-selective school in the country.

We will (fingers crossed!) be moving from outer north London to Bishops Stortford, Herts this year for very similar reasons OP.

We are also looking for good academics and diversity, but with a genuinely balanced mix, and for us the super-selectives don't have that mix any more, even though DP and I both attended one of them back in the day and loved it. 40ish minutes to Liverpool Street from there I believe (which is actually quicker than from our Zone 5 suburb - another motivation for the move).

Finding the right house and getting a place for DD at a feeder primary is going to be a logistical nightmare, which is why we're getting in there early (DD is currently in Year 2). Luckily we only have the one child to accommodate!

We aren’t religious - at least, I am baptised and confirmed Catholic but the DCs are not so I assume that is essentially meaningless!

Also, on the grammar thing - DS is definitely bright (and DH and I both went to Oxbridge so feel pretty confident we could help prepare him and/or could get him a tutor), I just think he’s more likely to be top 5-10% than top 2%, just being realistic, and would hate to base our house decisions around something so risky.

I know that some grammars are easier than others, so wouldn’t rule it out entirely. Tricky thing seems to be to find somewhere that has grammars and good comp backups, as grammars presumably usually cream off the bright kids from the local area. I would expect both kids to be in the top streams of whatever comp they end up at.

@SecretCS Absolutely. You have to be able to buy within a very small area. I was able to buy an ex CA property but the general market is lightly cheaper than other areas of London, if you can stretch to a Victorian terrace.

@wipeywipe Yes, you’re right, the results are usually from the higher sets. But I think that’s true of most schools with a broad variety of abilities, with in the school population, isn’t it? If a student has the ability then they can do well there. Mine have despite being from the cliched single parent/low income background. From what I’ve seen of those London schools that regularly make the papers for their high level of Oxford and Cambridge acceptances, they have created such a high bar for entry that of course the majority are likely to make top grades. At least that’s my interpretation, I may be wrong.

OP one of the things you’ll need to decide is if London & secondary is a comfortable mix for you. My kids are very city savvy and I love that, but it’s doesn’t suit everyone.

Ealing has several outstanding high schools, generally more affordable housing on offer too

Sydenham/Forest Hill/Dulwich. I live round there and there are a lot of good schools with a good diverse population.

Check St Andrew's criteria - I don't get the sense its hugely onerous in terms of church attendance!

If you moved to Epsom you are in catchment for the Sutton Grammar schools (and even Tiffin on the second catchment group) but also for Rosebery and Glyn, which are well established as very good state comprehensives (and Blenheim which I think is an excellent school but definitely not as academic). You'd also be eligible for St Andrews (if you went that route). If you did want to go private, there are also plenty of private schools in the area including Epsom College and St Johns at the top end or Ewell Castle at the bottom (still an excellent school but notably cheaper and less "Hardcore") and with a bunch in the middle - Reigate, Boxhill etc. Trains go to Victoria and Waterloo.

Have you looked at Dulwich and surrounding areas? I have worked with people who live there and I get the sense there's also a good mix of excellent state schools and private schools?

Also, on the grammar thing - DS is definitely bright (and DH and I both went to Oxbridge so feel pretty confident we could help prepare him and/or could get him a tutor), I just think he’s more likely to be top 5-10% than top 2%, just being realistic, and would hate to base our house decisions around something so risky

The most 'balanced' (in terms of pupil demographics and curriculum focus) highly academic school I'm aware of is Dame Alice Owen's in Potters Bar. Everyone I know whose DC go there raves about it. But it is insanely difficult to get into and they are in the process of tightening up the catchment criteria to introduce feeder primaries (trying to reserve the very limited catchment places for genuinely local Potters Bar families). People I know have worked there as lunchtime supervisors there just to get their kids into the school via the 'children of staff' criterion.

It's fairly local to us but we're not in one of the catchment postcodes, so would have to move house anyway if we wanted to apply. Instead we've decided to move a little further out, get a bit more space and hopefully access an academic comp.