Where to move in London for secondary

[LondonSchoolsHelp]

Feel like this is a classic topic but haven’t found a recent one.

I’ve got a boy and girl, currently year 2 (summer born) and preschool (autumn born). We live in an area with lots of well-off families and private schools (which we can’t afford), a couple of super selective grammars (which are 95% Asian - we are white and I wouldn’t want the kids to be in such a small minority, even if they got in). As a result the local comp isn’t really a comp, results not great and there is a drugs problem.

Planning to move to the catchment of a good state school in the next couple of years. But where?

It’s very early to say but I don’t think DS would get a place in a super selective grammar - he is in the top handful in his class (and is summer born) but it doesn’t sound like this would be enough (or is it too early to tell at 6?). I’d be more confident about DD who is only in preschool but ahead of the game (typical girl). But I think really for safety we are looking for a good comprehensive.

I work near Liverpool Street and DH works in Victoria, though I am in the office 3-4 days a week and DH only 1-2. We’ve always lived East but I don’t think there are any areas near us that fit the bill.

Our house budget is probably £1.3-£1.4m if we were to move now…who knows in a couple of years.

I feel sad as love our current area and we have made so many friends here, but I can’t see things changing at the local school, even with the VAT increase. All the parents at our (excellent state) primary are just saving up for secondary.

So where should we go and when?

Sorry just seen you're Wanstead so probably talking about the same grammar. I do agree my eldest would probably get into the grammar if we pushed him enough but my youngest probably not so it's not something we're considering. Woodbridge seems excellent though but probably just as diverse as Wanstead High so might not fix your problem.

FFS I’m talking about two schools in multicultural, multiracial London which are 95% one racial and religious background, which is different from my own and my children’s. So my kids would be in a tiny minority, in schools which are not reflective of the local area.

I would equally not want my kids to be the only poor kids in a rich school, or the least academic kids in an academic school etc etc.

I want a mixed school. That is not racist.

FFS I’m talking about two schools in multicultural, multiracial London which are 95% one racial and religious background, which is different from my own and my children’s. So my kids would be in a tiny minority, in schools which are not reflective of the local area.

I would equally not want my kids to be the only poor kids in a rich school, or the least academic kids in an academic school etc etc.

I want a mixed school. That is not racist

Hear, hear @LondonSchoolsHelp

You could try Bucks. The Bucks grammars take maybe the highest scoring 30%, so are nowhere near super selective, and they don't seem to be dominated by a single social or ethnic group. Most areas in South Bucks are in catchment for both single sex and co-educational grammars. North Bucks just has Royal Latin.

Can you find God for a while? Look at the Twyford Academy Trust schools. They're in Ealing/ West Ealing/ Acton and your budget will buy a nice 4 bed.
All also offer quite a few (20?) music scholarships as a means to do more covert selection.

ealingfields.org.uk/news/2024-02-08-twyford-cofe-academies-trust-tops-the-mat-league-tables-1#:~:text=Ealing%20Fields%20is%2015th%20in,of%20schools%20in%20the%20country)

The only dark child in a white school would be told to integrate, so it should work the other way round too.

OP should encourage her children to integrate with clever brown children. They'll all be fine together.

I believe that most parents, given the choice, would not want their children to form part of a very small minority in any given group.

OP just wants to send her child to a school which is representative of the local community. From what I understand these schools are not, which suggests that children will be commuting in from other areas which will make friendships much harder to form. I think it’s vital for children to feel grounded in a local community and to have friends they can walk or cycle to, people who they will bump into and recognise in town etc. That’s what communities are.

That's the reality for many ethnic minorities at school and beyond.

That's the reality for many ethnic minorities at school and beyond.

What has that got to do with the OP?

I have children in a Wanstead primary of similar ages and know the dilemma OP. Have name changed for this. It’s a common mum chat thing.

My reflection on all of this is that comprehensives all have a range of experiences - that’s their nature and you can’t be comprehensive without including drug problems and a wide range of academic ability. You are more informed about your own local comprehensive than others and they do all have variety. You will have options at the time including in Leytonstone, Newham etc. You could baptise children as then Trinity would be an option later on.

We have considered moving to Cambridge which might be an option for you - no grammars to confuse things, lots of privates but excellent state options (including St Bedes if you baptise kids) and easy 1hr commute to King’s X or Liv Street, with reasonable drive to friends. Very different vibe but def not Surrey.

Wasntead High - is that what you are discounting? I don't think you would need to go far to access good schools - Woodbridge, Trinity, Davenant, Highams Park - but yes probably not the grammars around here if you are seeking diversity.

Actually my local state secondary (and sixth form) is pretty much 95%+ Bangladeshi/Muslim.

This is Swanlea School in Whitechapel. Rated outstanding. 2nd highest rated secondary in Tower Hamlets (the 1st rated secondary is Church of England), 23rd highest in Greater London. Perfect location for the OP as it’s walking distance to Liverpool St and a direct tube line to Victoria. But it doesn’t meet the diversity criteria given the lack of ethnic mix. It would probably get bonus points for Oxbridge entrants given it’s one of the poorest areas in the UK (despite also having plenty of multi-million pound properties tucked away, serving City and Canary Wharf workers).

Agree with pp about Barnet. When we moved here we did full analysis of schools from east to north west (discounted south due to family being east). The two areas with densest areas of good secondary schools were Redbridge and Barnet. We chose Barnet for being a more green and affluent area.

We moved to the ashmole academy catchment because it is definitely the sought after school here, but the catchment is tiny and the houses in the catchment are smaller than surrounding areas. Which people are snooty about! Depends what you’re after. Many people in the area go to DAO or Latymer as well. Ashmole primary is a feeder but there is very little movement in-year.

however there are lots of very well regarded schools also around here: east Barnet school, the Compton school, Southgate gate school and highlands are all great, though ashmole continues to outperform them. Ashmole has some music scholarships so that’s another route to consider if you’re not in the catchment. The choice is great. It’s quite surburban but very green and huge parks and forests around and it’s incredibly safe. Southgate high street is nothing to get excited about but is improving year on year. Winchmore Hill is lovelier and more village like but you don’t get the same choice of secondary schools.

Agree with others that £1.4m will buy you a house in Muswell Hill but be careful as the catchments for Fortismere and Aps don’t really overlap so best to commit to one or the other.

These properties are safely in the catchment for Ashmole.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/154422698#

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/151514369#/?channel=RES_BUY

Also. Your year 2 child would be unlikely to get a place at ashmole primary but there may well be space at nearby osidge which is an excellent school and has just joined the Ashmole academy trust. Their pupils don’t get guaranteed entry into Ashmole but that might change in the future. There are also many other excellent primaries in the area. In general we are pretty blessed!

My friend in Hinckley Wood is looking to sell her 4 bed house this year. Hinckley Wood School is really well regarded so she expects there to be plenty of interest from prospective buyers..

If you're willing to move to just outside of London you could try Broxbourne? I've heard the school gets great results and you can get the fast train direct to Liverpool St. Your husband can also easily get to Victoria as train also stops at Tottenham Hale on the Victoria line.

Thank you so much for all the helpful replies.

So far on my list I have:

• Muswell Hill for APS
• Ealing for various options (do you have to be CofE for the Twyford ones? It didn’t look like it from the Ealing Fields website but maybe there’s a priority I missed)
• Barnet for various options - what are the good comps other than Ashmole? Is this in catchment for DAO?
• Tooting for Graveney - though seemed to have been mixed reviews.
• Further into Redbridge for Trinity, Woodbridge - does anyone have any kids there atm?

Outside of London recommendations are:

• Cambridge
• Broxbourne
• Bishops Stortford
• Anyone have any thoughts on Shenfield direction? (End of Elizabeth line so could work ok)

Can I just say, it strikes me as bizarre to move your entire lives to bag the "best" school. Don't you have connections to where you currently live that matter? Do you care about other aspects of where you are hoping to move to or is just about the schools? Will you engage with the new community or just use the facilities you need? I think there is much more to life than just schools and quality of overall life for all of you should be just as important.

@LondonSchoolsHelp The other standard suggestion on these threads would be St Albans, which has some excellent comps, but it's insanely expensive (even with a million pound budget), small catchments and I'm not sure what the commute is like into Liverpool Street.

Can I just say, it strikes me as bizarre to move your entire lives to bag the "best" school

@Arran2024 Not wishing to answer on OP's behalf, but IME moving for secondary is extremely commonplace, especially in London. Most of my friends have older DC than we do, and pretty much all of them have moved - either across borough, to access a slightly better school catchment, or out of London entirely.

In our case, the local choice of secondary is a new super strict church academy (uniform line-ups, silent corridors, narrow curriculum), several underperforming/tough comps that aren't academic enough for us, or hothousing DD for a super-selective - so moving is a no-brainer for us, and we've been aware we'd probably end up doing this since DD was born. Education is massive for both DP and I, but especially for me as I'm acutely aware that I wouldn't have had the same prospects and opportunities had I not attended an excellent grammar school.

We both grew up here and have two sets of elderly parents living locally (mine will probably aim to follow us when we settle), but little in the way of extended family and tbh London is so transient that most of our friends are scattered anyway - our neighbours are all fairly recent blow-ins from outside London, or people who moved from other parts of London for cheaper house prices. I'm quite community minded and do a lot of volunteering, so we'd definitely aim to integrate ourselves in a new location - part of the reason we're moving is actually that we find our London borough lacks any genuine sense of community.

Obviously wherever you move to needs to be somewhere you'd be happy living though!

Yes, I mean it shouldn't just be all about the school. Community, leisure, work, commuting all matter too. I live in a very popular part of SW London for schools and I hate to think that we are attracting people who just want the schools and aren't interested in the wider community. We are a lot more than just the schools!

@Arran2024 agree with all that @TempsPerdu has said.

We are contemplating a move within the same city - that’s not moving our “entire lives”. Of course we will choose a nice house where we will all be happy, but having that and being near a good school are not mutually exclusive.

Im surprised that (a) you don’t know other people who have done this and (b) you can’t see why we wouldn’t want to prioritise our kids’ education in this way.

DH and I work in different places and as you’ll see from my OP the commute does matter as I wouldn’t want to sacrifice time with my kids. Fortunately the other things we value - green space and access to the arts - are also available pretty much everywhere in London.

Can I just say, it strikes me as bizarre to move your entire lives to bag the "best" school.

Thousands do actually do this though. I'm a Londoner and I don't have a single NCT friend left and many primary school friends have gone. A lot of people are scared of London comps for whatever reason and the grammars are very competitive and now private is out of reach for many.