Cheeky offers for Reno projects?

[Simonlebonbon]

Hello, I’m wondering if I’m very out of touch here. If you’ve noticed similar recently I’d be interested to hear it.
I’ve been to see a few dooer uppers recently and they seem to be priced without taking into account that they need massive amounts of cash spending on them.
For instance, a house that’s in need of a full renovation including rewire, not a single room that wouldn’t need everything from replastering and new flooring have been priced very similarly to a house that requires no more than a lick of paint and new carpets at your leisure. I’m talking a 5k reduction.
These Renos aren’t selling understandably but surely if a house needs 60k spending on it and the house next door needs nothing, then you’d take 60k off your asking price, not 5k? The longer these houses aren’t selling the more internal damage, more possibilities of squatters or rodents, even more possibility of another market crash. It just seems ludicrous to try selling a dilapidated property for a the same price as a perfectly liveable one in the same street, with the same amount of bedrooms and space but I’m fully prepared to be told I am missing something here

I haven’t seen a fixer-upper at old fixer-upper prices in yonks, I don’t think it’s a thing anymore – house prices have gone up so much and there’s so little on the market that all houses are gold dust, whether they’re turn-key or derelict.

I’m looking in the north west and the market isn’t too bad, or I’d get it!
I’ve been to see 3 houses in the same road, 1 completely derelict and 2 just very dull but all the same layout. (All ex local authority.)
The one in need of a full renovation was 3k less than the one that needed a carpet replacing on the stairs as it’s most major job.
It’s not been unique to this street either.
I’ve a very limited budget so I was hoping to find a place to fix up but with the cost of fixing it up I may as well get somewhere that doesn’t need much work at all. Shame though, I’d have enjoyed choosing my own kitchen and bathroom.

This has definitely been the case in the last 3 years now the renovation costs have doubled. Unfortunately, the estate agents and sellers of these type of properties have still not grasped the fact that they are not worth anywhere near what they may have been previously relative to homes in good condition. People used to buy these sort of projects and make a profit on them. No longer!
I've seen a lot of these homes on Rightmove and they are not selling and get gradually reduced but not by enough.
If the sellers are so unrealistic you either need to move on or offer what you think is fair having deducted realistic costs for the work and hassle of doing it. Perhaps they will get the message eventually!

That's just not true at all. Numbers of homes on the market are not low and are increasing in the last couple of weeks after an expected seasonal reduction at the end of last year. All houses are not gold dust at all. You only need to look on Rightmove to see multiple reductions nearly everywhere.

I spotted that too. And I am pretty sure the owners wonder why they don't sell. Ven saw aome not selling in auction because the start price was still too much.
I would love a doer upper but I cannot afford, nor am I willing, to overspend by 20% on an average house in average area. No one would be imho!

Yes I've noticed it too and I'm in the North West

If they are all x council they will probably all need rewiring as they were built at the same time

Thanks for replying!

Some of the properties alongside needing total renovation have also been properties that would be difficult to get a mortgage for (non standard construction, so housing estates that were quickly knocked up after ww2) and they're still asking for huge amounts over what would even make your money back.

Crazy times for property I think.

I’m also looking in the North West, and the amount of old dross on the market is astounding.
It would be very easy to think a 20k discount is a good price. When in reality it should be 60k as you say.
I also think the old solid wall houses should be absolutely avoided. With heating costs unpredictable, and the move to net zero continuing, they will surely become a liability at some point. All the government needs to do is say no more gas boilers, or houses must be an EPC ‘C’ at point of sale, and suddenly no one wil want them, and rightly so.

We had external insulation on solid wall. It was 5*. Had the same on family home in another country.
Ours was EPC C btw. It's more expensive than cavity but well doable

Well that just wouldn't happen and is an utterly ridiculous thing to say. They can't ban the MAJORITY of houses from being sold because of a system that doesn't apply to their construction lol.

This. Post Brexit trades costs have gone through the roof with them often charging over £150ph. You can't buy a cheap house in SE and not expect to pay half again on repairs/renovations. I suspect this is now catching up with the North too.

Where did I say that?
I said that at point of sale, the house will need to be at EPC C. So the owner will need to insulate it to reach the required level. The UK has some terrible housing stock that pisses heat away.
Housing accounts for a lot more emissions than traffic, and look what they are doing there.

I went to view another house with questionable resale value anyway. For me the resale isn’t an issue and if the price was right I’d find compromise on issues that arose.
But the house to do up would have been likely 60-70k, maybe more, the audacity to market it for the same price as a typical move in property is just astounding.
Im also struggling to predict the property market so I’m really not wanting to over pay for any property when there is so much uncertainty in property prices currently.

I may be better off looking at auctions only.

Look at past auctions and see what didn't sell. I am going in next year offering what I consider correct prices on these 🙈 With proper explanation of why of course.

I don't think people realise that letting house sit empty for year will massively affect it, require more work AND therefore will even lower the value more. In that year a reasonable doer upper can become needs complete gutting project.

I grew up in solid sandstone housing with foot thick walls... it doesn't tick the governments 'EPC' boxes but I can tell you for fact it holds heat 100% better than the awful modern builds of the last 70 or so years.

They aren't less eco' and the government knows that. Millions of buildings CAN'T even have stuff done to them under government laws to protect the history and landscape of this country. Planning permission if often turned down for invasive changes or builds that would 'improve' the so called 'energy rating' of buildings.

Cavity wall houses have a lot of issues in themselves and will see over time are not built to last. One in the next village over just fell down due to rust in the cavity ties and it was only 50 year old... could have killed someone.

For me fixer uppers rarely offer good value these days unless you can do most of the work yourself.

Getting in trades these days is a pain. They are expensive and because they are in demand there are a lot of cowboys out there.

Houses that have been done up to a decent standard are generally far better value at the moment.

Basically the market (prices people are asking) is lagging the reality of what's happening on the ground. That won't go on forever but at the moment it's largely the case.

You will fair better at auction because they better reflect the reality of the market at the moment rather than peoples pipe dreams from yesterday. But obviously there are risks associated with that method of buying.

Solid stone houses - why do so many complain of the heating problems if they are so perfect? There are means to test homes with infrared cameras so it can be judged scientifically rather than opinion and anecdotally based

Like every new build there are good and bad old builds too

I do agree that planning should allow homes to change if it improves the insulation however - madness that it costs an absolute fortune to get custom double glazing in some listed homes

You sound sensible. Some of the pricing does seem extremely cheeky or perhaps they are just delusional and stuck in 2019 (but with 2022 prices). Certainly, in the South, particularly for larger houses, prices have come down since mid 2022. I think this has happened to some degree further North too but it's more variable. I really think prices will reduce more, possibly very significantly depending on the general economy, which is looking v shaky!

Whose complaining?

I don't know anyone in a stone house that complains, its very much a mumsnet phenomenon of people say 'I would never live in one of those because...' with little to no experience.

I have live in all sorts of building from wood framed non standards to 60s build cavity to Victorian solid brick terraces to 300 year old sandstone... Sandstone held the heat best, I would go Victorian solid brick long before 60s again and again.

In fact I even made a post trying to get people to help me 'like' a 60s house before viewing as it ticked all boxes on paper but turned out was awful in person anyway and reinforced how ticking boxes on paper means nothing.

Thank you.
mum absolutely terrified about taking forward steps to even put my house on the market.
I wouldn’t know how to even consider navigating prices down south, I understand that wages are higher but surely not enough to justify the actual house prices?

Always just offer what it is worth to you, and if they say no, move on. Some sellers are delusional and some buyers get frustrated that they can't get the house they want for what they want to pay, but the truth is there is no correct price, only what buyer and seller agree on.

As for prices being forced down, I've been hearing that for 25 years. Several times I really thought it would happen but instead it tends to stagnate and then roar off again, so I wouldn't count on it.

'I wouldn’t know how to even consider navigating prices down south, I understand that wages are higher but surely not enough to justify the actual house prices?'
I think that's why prices have come down more rapidly in the South. People simply can't stretch any more. I think they have been held up much higher than wages alone would have made possible because of the bank of mum and dad, who have often made very large profits on their own properties.

"Shame though, I’d have enjoyed choosing my own kitchen and bathroom."

This is partly it.

Everyone wants that these days.

And the cost of replacing a 30 year old kitchen with a modern one you like isn't that much more than replacing a 3 year old kitchen that just isn't to your taste.

It mostly just comes down to square footage and location. Condition doesn't come into it as much as one might expect, particularly when it's the likes of plastering and flooring as stated in your OP.

The problem is, for me personally, that replacing 3 year old kitchen is bit of a waste. But I would have to replace many as they are often nonsensically done.
Juat saw one whwre cooker waa in a separate utility room... New kitchen and utility!

Plus you usually pay extra if house has 3 year old kitchen compared to 30 year old