Cheeky offers for Reno projects?

[Simonlebonbon]

Hello, I’m wondering if I’m very out of touch here. If you’ve noticed similar recently I’d be interested to hear it.
I’ve been to see a few dooer uppers recently and they seem to be priced without taking into account that they need massive amounts of cash spending on them.
For instance, a house that’s in need of a full renovation including rewire, not a single room that wouldn’t need everything from replastering and new flooring have been priced very similarly to a house that requires no more than a lick of paint and new carpets at your leisure. I’m talking a 5k reduction.
These Renos aren’t selling understandably but surely if a house needs 60k spending on it and the house next door needs nothing, then you’d take 60k off your asking price, not 5k? The longer these houses aren’t selling the more internal damage, more possibilities of squatters or rodents, even more possibility of another market crash. It just seems ludicrous to try selling a dilapidated property for a the same price as a perfectly liveable one in the same street, with the same amount of bedrooms and space but I’m fully prepared to be told I am missing something here

Yes, I agree, I would fund it hard to replace a 3 year old kitchen that I just didn't like. Seems so wasteful.

It's been a while since I have moved but I have moved house many times in the past 20 years.

Out of nosiness, I like to keep an eye on my previous houses if they ever come on the market again.

One house I sold was a lovely old Victorian terrace. In the 6 years we lived there we updated a lot, but we didn't get around to the bathroom. It was fine, just a bit tired. We also didn't do much to the kitchen but it had been done a few years before we bought it and was fine.

Family bought from us and sold again just 18 months later as they were relocating for work. I could see from Rightmove they had renovated the whole house.

New bathroom and kitchen which would have cost tens of thousands. They looked good. I would have assumed this would add value.

In the other rooms, they had painted and papered and recarpeted. I felt this was very unnecessary as they had almost replaced like with like - mostly neutral wall colours and slightly different coloured carpeting to the (good quality) carpets I had put down just before selling. And the rooms were big and the ceilings were high, so none of this was cheap.

Anyway, they sold for £20k less than they paid us. I really felt for them. This was in 2020.

Anyway, the house has sold another twice since then (not sure why there has been such a high turnover) and each time there has been a brand new kitchen and brand new bathroom. Nothing reconfigured. Just all new cabinetry and appliances. Not even a big change in style. Just "new".

I know everyone deserves to live in a house they love, but i find the wastefulness of it all upsetting.

I agree with you that it is very wasteful to rip out new, perfectly functional kitchens. Social media and advertising have a lot to answer for!

However, the OP is talking about something different; houses that need full renovations rather than just fancying a new kitchen. It isn't correct that condition isn't very relevant in terms of price. These houses have clearly reduced in value since 2022 or so when the cost of work shot up so much. People just aren't buying them without massive price cuts.

YABU I saw a gem yesterday, that had oil fired heating still, in an area with gas. It was being sold for just under full market value. It even was being sold with a tie in the garden should it be redeveloped (by some gnomes?!) in the future 😝.

We’ve just had our house valued, we completely renovated it pre and during Covid (full re wire, roof/ dormer repair, new CH system inc all new pipes chased into walls, boiler and rads, brand new windows/ doors, floors, re skim all walls, new utility room /porch addition, as well as redone throughout inc luxury kitchen diner (knocked thru) and bathrooms. It cost about £80k which was a good deal before prices jumped. We’ve just about broken even on the valuation but may well lose money if we have to drop the price.

one 2 doors down that is smaller, smaller garden, worse plot, tiny kitchen, no utility, and needs absolutely everything doing to it, is valued at £15k less than ours. 🤷‍♀️ but it hasn’t sold.

I agree with this really....but I live in central London so I think it's completely different to say "up north ". Houses here are like gold dust..in fact even better if they're derelict, original features, untouched etc. Yes there is a small price difference in ones already done compared to those not, but not in any real significance when you're talking about huge amounts of money. The agents and the owners all have the attitude that if you don't buy it, someone else will 🤷‍♀️ and that's exactly what happens.

I couldn’t replace a functional kitchen either, no matter how much I’d want the dream kitchen, the waste to me is too much.

I hate how conscious I am of such things, it’s a killjoy at times 🤣

The worst for me is that many of the new ones are actually not functional for me😂
I think lots of people don't cook properly? I dunno😂 I am absolute not going to another room into fridge or to a cooker, or having weird regularly interrupted worktop.

And selling the kitchen or similar is hard! So yeah. Waste of units.

I am trying to remember where the property with cooker in utility was😂

I saw that in a house I viewed. They essentially had a "show kitchen" which was open plan and had the dining table/ sofas etc (really just worktops and a bar fridge/ barware/ coffee machine etc) and then a "real kitchen" hidden away through a door which had the oven/ hob/ fridge and all the prep space and then through another door to a laundry. I did wonder if they had "staff" and that was why it was designed like that but it was odd.

Just make an offer then OP. They can only say no. I've gone in over £100k under asking and been laughed at. Also had offers accepted. What have you got to lose?

Similar but this one was only 3 units wide tiny utility/cooker space. Admittedly the show part WAS nice, but I still don't get it. Big cooking kitchen aside, I maybe would

What’s the most under offer you’ve had accepted? Percentage and amount in pounds?

There are plenty like that where I am in Yorkshire. A family member is looking for a fixer upper for their first home to save some money but like you've described there's a minimal discount compared to a ready to move into house.

@Nespressso I cba to work out percentages but £125k under asking and 725k down from 850k - we didn't have a chain and the house needed a lot of work (we spent around £200k on it).

Where I live family houses are in short supply and priced mainly on location and school catchment. Beautifully decorated or ‘project’ not making much difference to per sq ft sold prices. I feel sorry for sellers that made their homes look beautiful ahead of the sale. I viewed one on in a very nice street that was a probate and didn’t have a functioning kitchen and the sellers hadn’t presented it at all. The poor dearly departed man’s false teeth were still in a glass by the bed, his last g&t was on the coffee table. I offered £40k less than asking. It needed new everything. It went at asking.

We completed today on our house sale/purchase. Selling the home we’d lived in since 1991 to buy our forever home, a doer upper bungalow.
It was listed initially for £280k in December 2023 - probate property and I think the executors were trying to maximise what they could get from the estate. They had no interest as it was very overpriced and needed completely gutting as hadn’t been touched since it was built in the 1960s. It was reduced to £265k in June 2024 and in July, we put a very very cheeky offer in for £190k and it didn’t get accepted, we then went back and forth and in the end they accepted £210k - we wouldn’t have gone higher but I think they got fed up with us bidding!

We will need to spend about £150k to get it to the specification that we want it. We are in there early doors tomorrow to start ripping out carpets/flooring and other fixtures ready for the builders to start on site on Monday!

When we buy BTL projects, these are always reno - and we do most work ourselves!
Our first BTL property in 1997 was a 3 bed terraced house, we purchased for £29,000 - complete renovation required, we rented it out for over 20 years and sold it in 2021 for £260k!!

I’ve bought & sold a lot over the years and am always surprised by how little difference it makes to the price if the house is in good condition or not. A house in good condition isn’t much more money than a house in bad condition as EAs seem to value more on things like location, square footage, school catchment etc rather than if the property needs a new kitchen or bathroom.

To me it makes sense to buy the property in better condition and live with someone else’s (perfectly nice) kitchen & bathroom etc. I think the main difference is houses that look good sell quickly & normally without having to be reduced by the EA whereas those that don’t may be initially valued at a similar amount by the EA but take much longer to sell & may end up being reduced.

Renovation costs are so high now anyway - I can’t see that taking on a project makes financial sense. Although they probably make emotional sense to people that are very particular about wanting to choose their own style of kitchen/bathrooms etc.

I'm still really surprised anyone would put a cooker in a utility room to be honest, it's just so bloody odd.

I think the market is absolutely ridiculous atm. Nothing makes much sense.

All you can do is offer what you think it is worth, even if that is 20% off asking price.
Are people actually buying these renovation projects where you are? They have definitely been popular in the past and lots of people have been 'property developers' as their full time job but the days of making good profits from property flipping are over. From what I see, since 20222, these sort of places are just not selling because they are extremely over priced relative to the amount of work that needs doing. Whereabouts in the country are you? Is it a fast moving market in general?

@rainingsnoring I'm in the North West, tne last house I viewed has been on for over a year. I will make a cheeky offer, as pp said a house is worth what someone will pay for it.

Zoopla seems to have messed up valuation for many people because it only goes on the local market and buyers take it as gospel, I'm sure they won't when selling up though 😉

Think of it as a cheeky asking price, and a realistic offer.
With the way the economy is going, you should tread carefully.

@Simonlebonbon as @HellsBalls says, it's not your lower than asking price offer but the asking price that is cheeky! It would be a different matter if these sort of places were in demand and selling quickly but they are not.

@ohsitdownnextome can I ask roughly what area you are in where these project type homes are still so desirable?