Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Property/DIY

Join our Property forum for renovation, DIY, and house selling advice.

Original poster

Council informally says unlikely to approve deconversion

62 replies

Letsdoit123 · 03/09/2024 08:13

Hi, just looking for a bit of wisdom here.
We own two flats in a converted house, via a prelim enquiry the council had said that we need to submit a full planning permission and have a very clear justification as to why we would want to convert back into one dwelling, also that would be against their strategy to increase small dwellings in the area.
Has anyone had/done that before and what was the outcome? Just wondering what the chances are to be approved on that basis.

OP posts:
Original poster
Letsdoit123 · 03/09/2024 16:36

Phase2 · 03/09/2024 15:22

Why don't you move into the top flat with two bedrooms? If you stay it would be brilliant to have a separate dwelling for the adult kids that will never leave home <not bitter>

This made me chuckle, not a bad reason to stay put🤣.

OP posts:
pinkducky · 03/09/2024 16:40

@GoldPlayer please breach planning control and hide it from the council all the time thinking that if hide it for long enough, it will become immune from enforcement. There was a very well known case of a farmer hiding a house with hay bails only to reveal it after 4 years 😂

No one from the council will rock up unprompted to check, that's true. But when OP comes to sell, it will come up. No one in the right mind would buy a home with unlawful development because once they own it, they would be responsible for putting it right if it was discovered. Too high of a risk.

They also might be prompted by building regs which will presumably be required. Although, planning departments are so understaffed they don't ordinarily attend unless complaints are received.

Original poster
Letsdoit123 · 03/09/2024 16:40

Doable · 03/09/2024 15:59

Assuming you can put in an internal door without too much difficulty I might redesignate the rooms like this
Loft becomes a family living room perhaps even add a window if that makes sense
Second floor: living room becomes a bedroom so you have 2 bedrooms, kitchen and bathroom on that floor
Internal door gives you access to
First floor: 'Grown ups' living room for visitors (no toys), bedroom becomes a play room (taking pressure off 2nd floor bedroom and good to share if you add to your family) bathroom and kitchen on the same floor how amazing! Perfect for visitors, easy for daytime naps.
As you are not married I'm guessing you can each own one flat and not be liable for cgt.
If you apply for planning permission (remembering your specific circumstances are not taken into account from what you are saying) say you want to revert the house to family home plus granny annexe by adding an internal door on the basis that given demographic changes care within extended family living means it will meet a growing need within local housing stock.
Also investigate whether any other houses fairly locally have had planning permission to split into flats refused recently and if there are any vaguely comparable maybe point out this conversion would not necessarily be given permission today.

By the way I'm totally assuming you pay 2 lots of Council tax and own the two flats as completely separate dwellings.

Show quote history

All great suggestions, thank you so much. I haven’t thought about it this way.
Yes, we own both flats as separate titles, two council tax, etc.

OP posts:
Original poster
Letsdoit123 · 03/09/2024 16:43

pinkducky · 03/09/2024 16:40

@GoldPlayer please breach planning control and hide it from the council all the time thinking that if hide it for long enough, it will become immune from enforcement. There was a very well known case of a farmer hiding a house with hay bails only to reveal it after 4 years 😂

No one from the council will rock up unprompted to check, that's true. But when OP comes to sell, it will come up. No one in the right mind would buy a home with unlawful development because once they own it, they would be responsible for putting it right if it was discovered. Too high of a risk.

They also might be prompted by building regs which will presumably be required. Although, planning departments are so understaffed they don't ordinarily attend unless complaints are received.

I am not planning to hide it, one day it would become my poor DC’s problem as we were planning to live in the house very long term. Some great suggestions here which give me more hope!

OP posts:
Doggymummar · 03/09/2024 16:50

I think you stand a good chance to be honest. Tell them you have a growing family and elderly parent who will be looking to join you. You intend to live in the property are not a builder looking to flip the properties as a family home I think you will be ok.

Original poster
Letsdoit123 · 03/09/2024 17:15

Doggymummar · 03/09/2024 16:50

I think you stand a good chance to be honest. Tell them you have a growing family and elderly parent who will be looking to join you. You intend to live in the property are not a builder looking to flip the properties as a family home I think you will be ok.

Fingers crossed, thank you.

OP posts:
Diyextension · 03/09/2024 17:27

Araminta1003 · 03/09/2024 10:30

Council tax on two dwellings is more income for them?

This is the reason …. More houses more money

Hannahthepink · 03/09/2024 20:07

@Diyextension @Araminta1003 Council Tax banding is set by the Valuation Office (a central government department), your local council simply collects it from households (and the council tax office there will have no conversation with the planning department either). Opportunities for extra Council Tax have absolutely no bearing on planning permission, and the enticement of earning more as two dwellings is irrelevant.

itsgettingweird · 03/09/2024 20:34

I'm no expert and someone will tell me if this is a stupid argument.

But if they are wanting 2 dwellings you could counter argue you don't and never plan to rent out the second flat. (If I've understood correctly you don't as always intended to convert).

Original poster
Letsdoit123 · 04/09/2024 07:33

itsgettingweird · 03/09/2024 20:34

I'm no expert and someone will tell me if this is a stupid argument.

But if they are wanting 2 dwellings you could counter argue you don't and never plan to rent out the second flat. (If I've understood correctly you don't as always intended to convert).

Yes, always intended to convert, haven’t rented out, so the council “wins” on paper only, until I sell.

OP posts:
Original poster
Letsdoit123 · 04/09/2024 07:34

Hannahthepink · 03/09/2024 20:07

@Diyextension @Araminta1003 Council Tax banding is set by the Valuation Office (a central government department), your local council simply collects it from households (and the council tax office there will have no conversation with the planning department either). Opportunities for extra Council Tax have absolutely no bearing on planning permission, and the enticement of earning more as two dwellings is irrelevant.

That’s actually a good thing for my case then, thank you for sharing.

OP posts:
Seeline · 04/09/2024 09:54

The info you need is related to the Council figures on housing need, and the type of housing they have identified as being needed.
If they have identified a shortage of small dwellings, that is why they have a policy to retain them.
Have a look on the Council website for their housing monitor documents, and evidence for the most recent local plan housing policies. A planning consultant will be familiar with this evidence.
It will be down to you to argue why 2 small dwellings should be lost, contrary to the policy.
Your personal circumstances, family needs, and ownership do not count as material planning considerations.
If the Council evidence is up to date, it will be very difficult to argue against it.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page