Council informally says unlikely to approve deconversion

[Letsdoit123]

Hi, just looking for a bit of wisdom here.
We own two flats in a converted house, via a prelim enquiry the council had said that we need to submit a full planning permission and have a very clear justification as to why we would want to convert back into one dwelling, also that would be against their strategy to increase small dwellings in the area.
Has anyone had/done that before and what was the outcome? Just wondering what the chances are to be approved on that basis.

I'd go for planning permission. But if I didn't get it, I'd do it anyway, if I wanted to live there long term. If you cap the plumbing, it's not a big deal if you have to/want to reinstate the bathroom at any stage.

one complication I can see though is council tax.

I've never been a homeowner but this seems massively unfair to me. They're both your properties what business is it of theirs if you keep it split or not if you own both?

Please could you give us a rough floor plan? ie lower ground = 1 bed, living room, shower room, kitchen etc
In particular does the upper flat have a separate living room?
Is it 3 or 4 floors including the loft and what is the loft conversion like.
Do you have any living parents/elderly relatives?
Are you married?

How many bedrooms are the similar houses in your street?

Has a similar unconverted house in your street been sold recently? If so what is the comparison between what you would get If you sell both flats and what you would pay for an unconverted house in the same street?

CGT would apply if we have rented one of them out in the past, which we haven’t, or I am wrong?

No it applies whether or not you've rented one out.
it applies to all property it’s just you get private residence relief on one main residence so effectively no one pays CGT if they’ve got one house that they’ve lived in themselves

I know. All for the greater good at the moment it seems, which I am all in for, but moving houses with a toddler, especially when I have the perfect house, is going to be painful for us.

But if you own it jointly then you’ll both get your annual exempt allowance which is £6K each I think. So then it’s only the gain beyond that which is taxed. You can also deduct any money you’ve spent on capital improvements (not repairs or replacing like for like).

if you own both jointly and you haven’t rented either of them out you can choose which one you get the private residence relief on by nominating that as the main residence so obviously choose the one that has gone up in value least (to pay CGT on, nominate the other one!)

As it's the only one converted to flats,, I can see justification in converting to family house in keeping with all the other properties in the road.
Would there also be an argument for less parking needed?

I would check any home insurance implications and read the fine print very carefully (if you rip stuff out).
I do know people who just put in a hatch and continued to pay 2 lots of council tax, but I don’t know anyone who ripped out a full kitchen. They would have left it - as a dwelling requires that.
CGT applies on everything except the one which is your actual main residence. You cannot have 2 main residences.
Finally, my council always says no at first, especially if you have not paid them a full fee. It is their way of buying time it seems and raising funds.

1st floor - separate living room, bedroom, kitchen, bathroom with a separate toilet
2nd floor - separate living room, bedroom, kitchen, bathroom
loft - bedroom
2 floors plus loft, so 3 floors in total
No relatives/elderly parents
Not married, co-habiting
Our neighbours sold their house 3-4 years ago, exactly the same house, 4-bed but they had converted their loft into 2 bedrooms from memory, 4/5 bed, and had a kitchen extension done - £650k from memory.
If we sell both flats, we would get probably £550 at the moment.

What is the demand like for flats locally? Perhaps enquire with a local estate agent. They would also know about whether family houses are more sought after.

Given the negative response from planning to date, any evidence base you can gather will be crucial to a future application. Also seek out a locally based planning consultant who can actually demonstrate previous experience with this type of enquiry. Ditto for an architect.

@Ariela This thought crossed my mind, we have 4 identical Victorian houses like ours on the street, all family homes, and yes parking could be an argument too.

Demand for family houses is greater.

Interesting thought re planning fees, I would gladly pay that to avoid moving, I think I would go ahead and submit an application with a planning consultant as suggested above and keep my fingers crossed. Thank you:

CGT applies on a 2nd property regardless

You need to consider the development plan policies. They should have referred you to the policies that they have given weight to when coming to their decision, so I would look at those and surrounding policies to see if you can find anything to support your case.

You also need to consider any other matters that they might have given weight to (I.e do your local authority have a 5 year housing land supply, if not, decisions are weighted towards more homes etc).

Finally, try to find out if there have been any similar applications in your authority's area which were approved. You could try Google but it might be difficult unless they have been reported on somewhere. You can also search for appeal decisions from the planning inspectorate which are in your favour and bring them to the attention of the planning officer dealing with your pre-app enquiry.

If you're really into the idea of transforming to one dwelling, seek advice from a planning consultant who can look into all of this for you and draw up your application. If it is refused, you can appeal to the planning inspectorate.

Don't do it anyway and hide it. It won't become immune from enforcement action through the passage of time because the clock doesn't start until the breach of planning control is discovered. You will be served with an enforcement notice requiring you to basically put it all back. Failure to comply with an enforcement notice can be serious and they can seek an injunction to do it themselves and then get the money back from you. You will not be able to sell either!

It is quite draconian to interfere with private property in this way, but the local planning authority are responsible for regulating planning in their area and enforcing against breaches of planning control. A change from two dwellings to one is a material change of use of the site, and as such it requires planning permission.

How did you come to own both flats, OP? Did you buy the top floor one specifically to convert it for your family?

Sorry just to add, there is a fair amount of case law regarding whether an amalgamation is a material change of use where it only requires internal works. There's also a lot of refusals being overturned by the planning inspectorate (I just had a look). Definitely worth following up with some professional advice. Good luck!

Yes, we did a couple of years ago, then I got pregnant (tough pregnancy), and we pushed back the idea until I got better, it didn’t occur to me to ask the council until luckily I saw some posts on here that I need to.

I get that and I agree with the planning permission submission process but the principles for the potential refusal seem draconian, i.e. I am not allowed to do what I want with my properties because the council doesn’t want to have one property less on their books.

Why don't you move into the top flat with two bedrooms? If you stay it would be brilliant to have a separate dwelling for the adult kids that will never leave home <not bitter>

Who exactly would she be hiding it from? No one is going to show up at her door with a clipboard asking why she’s doing an internal reno with no structrual change inside her own property. It’s her land, her building. Surely this only becomes a potential issue for whoever inherits or buys it in the future?

Assuming you can put in an internal door without too much difficulty I might redesignate the rooms like this
Loft becomes a family living room perhaps even add a window if that makes sense
Second floor: living room becomes a bedroom so you have 2 bedrooms, kitchen and bathroom on that floor
Internal door gives you access to
First floor: 'Grown ups' living room for visitors (no toys), bedroom becomes a play room (taking pressure off 2nd floor bedroom and good to share if you add to your family) bathroom and kitchen on the same floor how amazing! Perfect for visitors, easy for daytime naps.
As you are not married I'm guessing you can each own one flat and not be liable for cgt.
If you apply for planning permission (remembering your specific circumstances are not taken into account from what you are saying) say you want to revert the house to family home plus granny annexe by adding an internal door on the basis that given demographic changes care within extended family living means it will meet a growing need within local housing stock.
Also investigate whether any other houses fairly locally have had planning permission to split into flats refused recently and if there are any vaguely comparable maybe point out this conversion would not necessarily be given permission today.

By the way I'm totally assuming you pay 2 lots of Council tax and own the two flats as completely separate dwellings.

Just another thought, something I considered doing with a slightly similar unconverted house.

I discovered there is a mixed use category for small hmo/single dwelling. I was going to pay a professional for advice with applying for planning permission for this and, as I understood it I'd then be able to have more than 2 lodgers (in a 4 bedroom house) or use it as a single dwelling family home (use class E perhaps?) My problem was letting out 2 rooms I either had to keep one empty or say no to couples.

Obviously you'd need professional advice but if you applied to change to this use class the council might see it as a potential increase in available housing as opposed to a reduction.

Apologies if I have this wrong - please let me know if you have professional knowledge.