Surveyor advised not to buy, but we LOVE that house

[Vavamum]

Has anyone been in a situation where a surveyor recommended staying away from a property, but you bought it anyway? Is it completely reckless to do so?

Here’s a brief overview of my situation:

1. We had an offer of £265k accepted for a three-bedroom semi-detached house.
2. While waiting for the legal process to complete, the adjoining property went up for auction and sold for half of what we offered.
3. It turns out the neighboring house has subsidence issues, likely caused by drain water damage on a slope. The insurance company offered a settlement because the repair costs were higher than the property's value.
4. The new owners of that property plan to start remedial work, including underpinning, and claim it won’t cost anywhere near as much as the insurance had estimated.
5. Despite the subsidence next door, the house we’re buying shows no signs of structural issues. The previous owners lived there for decades, and it’s only on the market now because they passed away.
6. Our surveyor, who also surveyed the neighboring property, advised us to steer clear of this purchase. They’re concerned that the remedial work next door could affect our house and reduce its value.

We understand the logic behind the surveyor's advice, and it’s hard to ignore. However, we’ve fallen in love with the property and don’t want to give up on it without exploring all options. Could further investigation be worthwhile, or is this a clear sign that we should walk away?

It's attached to a house that needs major subsidence work. It's very possible that the house you want will also be affected in some way.

It depends whether you want to essentially buy a house that's beyond economical repair but there are other houses that aren't going to fall down.

Sorry this sounds like a nightmare! I don’t want to scare you but even if the house is fine now, there is every chance yours is either suffering from the same issue now or will be affected by the underpinning (they are literally joined together!). Subsidence is not to be messed with, the house could crack, windows shatter or worse. You could find yourselves completely unable to get insurance or a mortgage and selling it for a sensible price could be nigh on impossible. Do check but you’d have to declare this to your own mortgage company too I would imagine.

I have a high appetite for old money pits but I wouldn’t touch this. You’ll find somewhere better.

If you’re desperate to explore every option I would get a couple of second opinions from other surveyors and also check if your mortgage company needs to have this declared and/ or you’ll be able to get buildings insurance (and the costs)

Is it semi detached? I briefly worked for a home insurance provider and the facts are a bit hazy now but I recall remedial work for subsidence can cause subsidence to start occuring on the other side of two adjoining houses once treated.

If its in a run of terraced properties you'd be better protected.

Walk away. I’d view it as the fact that the property - the home you want and its attached neighbour - are subsiding. If they are all one thing, you are going to get knock on effects. If one part of the building is experiencing subsidence, it will impact your half. If half is strengthened through underpinning, I’d be concerned about differential settlement occurring. Ultimately, if all of the building moves, it moves together, but once you start strengthening one part and not the other, you will get problems. I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole and I’m a structural engineer!

You love your soon-to-be-rubble, you mean?

it’s a shame, but better to walk away now than be tied into a nightmare.

There's a nice way of saying this, but I'm going to forego the pleasantries... (sorry)

Don't be an idiot.

Ok let's do some maths. Without structural issues it's worth £260k. With structural issues that have been fixed, it's maybe worth £220k (underpinning puts buyers off so it loses value). With structural issues it's worth around £130k then.

Next doors insurers have settled because they estimate underpinning will not be economical - so will cost in excess of £100k presumably. If you are desperate for it, get a quote for the whole building to be underpinned - yours and next doors. Whatever your share of that is, take off the £220k that it would be worth once done, and offer that.

So if it costs £120k to underpin both houses, your share is £60k. So you offer £220k-£60k= £160k.

Rough figures to illustrate the point obvs!

I would get an experienced builder in for a practical opinion. Be prepared to walk away, of course, but DS used to do a lot of structural work and rescue houses that would scare the living daylights out of most people.

What about making a reduced offer, based on this new information?

Are you cash buyers? I can’t think that any mortgage providers would lend you money on a property joined to a property with subsidence.

Your head certainly needs underpinning.

😭

But hang on- the OP says that for the next door house the costs of repairs to the subsidence were more than the value of the house! I know that the new owner thinks they can do it for less (that in itself would worry me TBH) but they might be wrong.

I honestly think that the current sellers need to get both houses underpinned, claim on their insurance and then try to sell with a warranty for the work in place.

That’s a bit unkind and unnecessary

Thank you so much. Just to note. The property we are buying is underpinned already - which is we believe why it’s not experiencing any issues right now. Still should run? 😭

Or you could wait until subsidence affects the one you want, no one buys it…and buy it for half the price at auction too!

Thank you so much. Just to note. The property we are buying is underpinned already - which is we believe why it’s not experiencing any issues right now. Still should run? 😭

Yes. Have you worked out whether you can get a mortgage or buildings insurance?

I strongly suspect even if you can the underpinning of next door will mean that yours might fail- but I’d want to get an expert to consider it.

Do you really love it that much- wouldn’t you worry that every hairline crack is the start of the whole house falling down?

Do this if your in a mining area or London clay. Underpinning round here is really common and isn't really reflected in house prices

Alas, I would still run. I’d be concerned about different work being done across the property - old vs new underpinning. I’d be concerned about underpinning, full stop. I’d also be concerned that the neighbour may find it costs more than they think…run out of money..,have it done to a substandard quality. You’re at the mercy of the entire building and that includes the side that is currently experiencing issues.

There will be other properties that you can fall in love with, without the risk of heartache!

The current owner (our vendor) contacted insurance about this and the insurance advised there is no sign of subsidence whatsoever. Which is true, this property has been underpinned years and years ago and is not showing any signs of issues. Insurance companies see them as separate buildings (which doesn’t make sense) and our vendor is convinced they’ve done their due diligence (which I can’t argue also). It’s a tricky situation and common sense is telling me we should run, but it would be a shame to then see someone buy our dream house and have no issues - just not sure if this is the risk we are willing to take

OP I really think if you do buy it like a PP said every single teeny hairline clack you see is going to give you massive anxiety. Forever. Is it really worth it? Even if it's all fine, when will you know for sure you're out of danger?

Thank you so much. Just to note. The property we are buying is underpinned already - which is we believe why it’s not experiencing any issues right now. Still should run? 😭

The problem is that when the other house is underpinned it will not necessarily "cooperate" with the one you want to buy.

It's very likely that it will put stress on "your" property beyond what the current underpinning can contain. It may take years for this to become apparent or may only take weeks.

As pp's have said this may be two houses but it's one building. What should have happened is that both were underpinned at the same time. It's probable the house you want to buy being underpinned has caused more damage to the one that wasn't. But that is now also likely true in reverse.

Think of a rectangular box that's twisted out of shape. Then try and stabilise half of it without impacting the other half in any way. It just not possible.

Personally I think the risk is too great even if you got a substantial discount.

😂

The current owner (our vendor) contacted insurance about this and the insurance advised there is no sign of subsidence whatsoever.

Sorry but this makes no sense- how would the insurance company know? Did they have a full structural survey done in the last month? Plus have next door done the work yet- I thought it had only just been sold? The sequence may well go, next door does work, all fine with next door, but then your house starts to move over the next year or so. To avoid this I think you might need the underpinning to be tied in some way- but I’m no expert- you’d need proper professionals to advise you. Not the vendors insurers!

Plus sounds like the existing vendor has insurance which would cover any costs if something does need doing, but yours if you did buy it would probably not.

I'm not sure if it's a risk I'd be willing to take but if you do so, you're going into it with your eyes open. You've been advised by the surveyor not to purchase so if you go ahead, any problems that you encounter down the line are down to your own choice. Only you can decide if it's a risk you're willing to take!