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Overpriced property- What to offer?

72 replies

WayTooBigForYourBoots · 16/07/2024 22:42

Hoping for some advice on how to gauge the value of a property in the current market. We have seen a house we like but it seems very overpriced compared to others we have seen in the same area.
There hasn’t been any recent sales on the same street to compare, but we do know the property price when it was last sold which was 6-7 years ago. There has been no changes made to the property since the last sale so any increase in value would be purely due to the change in the market.
What % extra should we look to add to the last sale price to come up with a reasonable offer? Or what is the maximum % increase they should expect to get from what they paid?

We saw another house in the same area that was also last sold 6-7 years ago, and has an asking price of 10% more than the last sold price which we thought could be a helpful guide, but that is a new build (so has probably lost some value?) and has had a lot of improvements done including landscaping the garden (which has increased the value) so we’re not sure if the price increase is comparable as the house we are looking at isn’t a new build or had any improvements done.

OP posts:
WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 13:35

ClonedSquare · 17/07/2024 13:08

You can't necessarily tell if any changes have been made to the property, without asking the sellers. It could be they bought the house below market value because it needed a lot of repairs which aren't apparent just from photos. General repairs don't add value, but major ones can if the house originally sold for less because of the need for them.

Aside from that, no one can advise you. It doesn't really work the way you're saying (adding a percent to the last sold price) because every local market is different. Base your offer on the asking price, how long it's been on the market and your knowledge of the local area.

So then what does that tell you? We have obviously asked the sellers!

OP posts:
WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 13:37

WhereIsMyLight · 17/07/2024 13:08

You ascertain market value by looking at similar houses in the area, noting that certain features will add value and certain features will detract from the value. You then observe the market in your area over the last year (not the last 7). If houses are moving quickly or this type of house rarely comes up, then you’re unlikely to get away with a low offer. If houses are moving slowly, you are more likely to get away with a low offer. However, it also depends on if the vendor needs to sell and how quickly they need to sell. If they need to sell, you’re again more likely to get away with a low offer. So with all that taken into consideration, you work out what your maximum for that house is and go from there.

Just because the estate agent typically overvalues, doesn’t mean this house actually is. Vendors use the guide from the estate agents and can go higher or lower. A vendor should have done their own research into the area and determined if that figure is realistic. A market valuation tool is an overly simplistic method to gauge house value.

Thank you for this input , some helpful points to consider

OP posts:
WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 13:41

SheilaFentiman · 17/07/2024 13:14

OP

You are criticising unhelpful replies, but you haven't really given enough information to get specifically helpful ones.

Appreciate you don't want to provide a link but something like "we are in the South East, looking to offer on a house priced at £700k, it last sold six years ago for £400k and there hasn't been any improvements made, it needs a new kitchen really, a larger house on a slightly nicer street street that doesn't need any work has gone from £600k to £800k in the same time so a much lower % - what should I offer?" is easier to consider.

In your shoes, I would call the agent and ask why the asking price has been set at X given the local percentage rises you have seen as comparators. Obviously their answer will be "salesy" but you might get more clarity on seller circumstances etc.

Thank you, maybe I should have given more information but it hasn’t been asked for so I didn’t realise. This is helpful thanks.

OP posts:
IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 17/07/2024 13:48

WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 13:06

Because it’s priced in the same region as other bigger much nicer houses in nicer streets and with better spec? And it needs work doing which the others don’t.

Just curious why do you want this house then.

WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 14:03

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 17/07/2024 13:48

Just curious why do you want this house then.

Why do you have the house you live in?

It has the spec we need - why else? We don’t need to buy more expensive or extravagant than we need, but we also don’t expect to pay the price of an expensive or extravagant house when it is only a modest spec like we are looking for.

OP posts:
RunningThroughMyHead · 17/07/2024 14:15

WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 13:06

Because it’s priced in the same region as other bigger much nicer houses in nicer streets and with better spec? And it needs work doing which the others don’t.

Your argument here is flawed. Those houses, if bigger and more expensive, will likely be suffering from the current dire market. People will be struggling to get mortgages due to the swap rates and interest rates.

There's is a much more buoyant market where I live for mid-range houses, so the typical 3 bed semis in nice areas. They're going like hotcakes and this pushes up their value.

So they won't ALL be going up by your 10% since 2015 (for example) as the market isn't the same for all types of houses.

I hate to say it but I think your more scientific approach to house buying could mean you miss out on some lovely houses. It's too abstract.

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 17/07/2024 15:28

WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 14:03

Why do you have the house you live in?

It has the spec we need - why else? We don’t need to buy more expensive or extravagant than we need, but we also don’t expect to pay the price of an expensive or extravagant house when it is only a modest spec like we are looking for.

Ah yes that explains it.
What relevance has the house I bought got to do with the reasons for the house you want.

SheilaFentiman · 17/07/2024 15:34

WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 14:03

Why do you have the house you live in?

It has the spec we need - why else? We don’t need to buy more expensive or extravagant than we need, but we also don’t expect to pay the price of an expensive or extravagant house when it is only a modest spec like we are looking for.

I think the point to the estate agent, then, is not about % rises but about how the price sought compares to those that are bigger and/or in better condition, and ask for their justification.

WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 15:55

RunningThroughMyHead · 17/07/2024 14:15

Your argument here is flawed. Those houses, if bigger and more expensive, will likely be suffering from the current dire market. People will be struggling to get mortgages due to the swap rates and interest rates.

There's is a much more buoyant market where I live for mid-range houses, so the typical 3 bed semis in nice areas. They're going like hotcakes and this pushes up their value.

So they won't ALL be going up by your 10% since 2015 (for example) as the market isn't the same for all types of houses.

I hate to say it but I think your more scientific approach to house buying could mean you miss out on some lovely houses. It's too abstract.

the 10% I mentioned was on a lower priced house around the same spec, not one of the dearer ones. (And before you say buy that then, we would if it was still for sale!)
The area we are looking in the bigger and
more expensive houses are not suffering but thanks I appreciate some of the points you are making

OP posts:
WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 15:56

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 17/07/2024 15:28

Ah yes that explains it.
What relevance has the house I bought got to do with the reasons for the house you want.

Exactly - I was making the point that the reasons for us looking to offer on that particular house are not relevant.

OP posts:
WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 15:57

SheilaFentiman · 17/07/2024 15:34

I think the point to the estate agent, then, is not about % rises but about how the price sought compares to those that are bigger and/or in better condition, and ask for their justification.

Thank you, will do that

OP posts:
Blueuggboots · 17/07/2024 16:03

We've recently had an offer accepted on a property that we felt was overpriced. We wrote a polite email saying we'd researched similar properties in the area and felt that the offer we were making was appropriate given the presentation of the property and the local market.
We offered £480,000 on a £550,000 priced house that has been on the market at that price for 6 months. We had been led to believe by the EA that they would accept close to £500,000. We were expecting to have to increase it but they accepted it!

KievLoverTwo · 17/07/2024 16:04

Replying to various points from you and from others.

>Because it’s priced in the same region as other bigger much nicer houses in nicer streets and with better spec?

How familiar are you with the area, OP? We're buying a house on a street that I thought was overpriced, I thought there were far prettier, leafier roads with bigger houses and sort of looked at £ per sq ft. What I didn't know: my future road is far quieter and is a cul-de-sac (so desirable), doesn't have parking on both sides (easier to get your car in), and, unlike the other roads I thought were desirable, doesn't have a bunch of houses that have been turned into flats, which is apparently not desirable. So I thought our street was less desirable, turns out it's not. I didn't have that in-depth local knowledge.

>We saw another house in the same area that was also last sold 6-7 years ago, and has an asking price of 10% more than the last sold price which we thought could be a helpful guide, but that is a new build (so has probably lost some value?) and has had a lot of improvements done including landscaping the garden (which has increased the value) so we’re not sure if the price increase is comparable as the house we are looking at isn’t a new build or had any improvements done.

New builds actually take a long time to lose value, but in the current market, second hand new builds are ten a penny, so they're being forced to drop their prices really low in order to make a sale.

10% above their purchase price after 7 years AND after doing a bunch of work is a really, really low asking price; except to say, people can take their pick of secondhand new builds at the moment (they seem to make up the majority of people who have over-leveraged themselves with expensive mortgages) and therefore do. So secondhand new build sellers are being forced to be brutality realistic about the market, and are pricing low.

Old home owners: not so much. They have character and can afford to wait it out for the right buyer.

>You can't necessarily tell if any changes have been made to the property, without asking the sellers.

I think you said you discussed it with the sellers but I always make a point of looking at online planning/approvals, where I can find: updated electrics, replaced windows and doors, wood burning stoves installed with a FENSA certificate, and so on. That's the 'hidden' value that estate agents don't often put in their marketing.

>There's is a much more buoyant market where I live for mid-range houses, so the typical 3 bed semis in nice areas. They're going like hotcakes and this pushes up their value.

This PP is absolutely spot-on. There's a bunch of people with very large houses downsizing right now, so the competition for your average 3 bed semi is hot.

I think they were right in also saying that far bigger homes aren't selling. You may see larger homes for cheaper than they would usually be because of this. Big home owners are being forced to reduce their prices.

However, it's NOT hot for homes that need a lot of work doing to them. So, if the kitchens and bathrooms are from the 90s and it all looks quite depressing, that's quite unlikely to be flying off the shelf. The ones that are smart and quite modern are going within a week or two. Don't get hooked in by an enthusiastic EA saying 'everyone wants 3 bed semis at the moment, there's a lot of competition in that market' if you can see with your own eyes that the house needs 40k in kitchen and bathroom upgrades. Only in the most desirable of areas are these sorts of homes still selling.

Do you have Property Log to see price drops?

Itsallsoboring · 17/07/2024 16:16

CLEO42 · 17/07/2024 06:41

You can offer what you want. The owners don’t have to accept it despite the well-researched evidence of your arguments. If they are not in a rush to sell then they can sit back and wait for the best price.

(This is what happened to a family member who wanted a house, on balance, more than the owners wanted to sell it. The house was overpriced for the area and the owners rejected all offers under the asking price, which was their prerogative. My relative really wanted the house so ended up offering the asking price to get it)

Edited

If they [sellers] are not in a rush to sell then they can sit back and wait for the best price.

while I understand your point, it doesn't quite make sense. If a buyer already thinks its overpriced, so will others. If a seller rejects the lower price, that buyer can move on and look for another property. If another buyer comes along, makes another low offer, then rejected, they'll walk away too. Buyers know it's not a good idea to overpay on a house right now. Plus, as a buyer, I've always asked the EA if a previous offer was made and what happened. They usually tell you it was rejected because it was "too low". That's the message every buyer will get - that every buyer who preceded them ALSO thought it was over priced.

So this idea of "the sellers can sit back and wait for the best price" doesn't make sense... those buyers will be long gone, especially in this buyer's market. They won't be around to take the house. The "best price" doesn't exist. The best price is whatever the seller is offered then and there.

Imo, that's a gamble a seller is making in a market downturn that works against them.

OP, make whatever offer you think the house is worth. In this market, you have nothing to lose.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 17/07/2024 16:24

I think the point to the estate agent, then, is not about % rises but about how the price sought compares to those that are bigger and/or in better condition, and ask for their justification.

I wouldn't bother with any of this, as a buyer or seller. They put their house on at the price they will sell at. If you want to offer less, offer it and be ready to move on - if this house is overpriced you will be able to get something similar for less.

Nobody has to justify anything.

NewFriendlyLadybird · 17/07/2024 16:31

There is absolutely no point talking about percentages, previous sold prices, comparisons with other houses that sold yesterday or seven years ago. There is also no way of objectively determining a house’s value.

The current asking price is more than you are prepared to pay. Don’t waste time and goodwill trying to justify that but just offer what you are prepared to pay — what its value is TO YOU.

The vendors may accept. Or they may decide that it is worth more TO THEM and decline your offer. That’s all there is to it.

Twiglets1 · 17/07/2024 17:12

WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 13:06

Because it’s priced in the same region as other bigger much nicer houses in nicer streets and with better spec? And it needs work doing which the others don’t.

Why not buy one of those houses then? Serious question.

RunningThroughMyHead · 17/07/2024 17:32

Twiglets1 · 17/07/2024 17:12

Why not buy one of those houses then? Serious question.

Let's face it, either they're out of OPs budget or the house has more going for it than they're letting on. Of course no one would want a house that's overpriced, especially when the person has researched everything and KNOWS it's overpriced.

WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 18:17

Twiglets1 · 17/07/2024 17:12

Why not buy one of those houses then? Serious question.

I already answered this to another poster

OP posts:
WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 18:22

TheYearOfSmallThings · 17/07/2024 16:24

I think the point to the estate agent, then, is not about % rises but about how the price sought compares to those that are bigger and/or in better condition, and ask for their justification.

I wouldn't bother with any of this, as a buyer or seller. They put their house on at the price they will sell at. If you want to offer less, offer it and be ready to move on - if this house is overpriced you will be able to get something similar for less.

Nobody has to justify anything.

No they don’t have to generally but if they want us to make a higher offer they will have to otherwise we walk away

OP posts:
Papricat · 17/07/2024 18:24

The market is way worse than seven years ago as mortgage rates are higher by several order of magnitude. Most asking prices are based on nothing more than 'paper value' and there certainly isn't enough high income households to afford those if everyone were to sell their house tomorrow.

WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 18:24

Itsallsoboring · 17/07/2024 16:16

If they [sellers] are not in a rush to sell then they can sit back and wait for the best price.

while I understand your point, it doesn't quite make sense. If a buyer already thinks its overpriced, so will others. If a seller rejects the lower price, that buyer can move on and look for another property. If another buyer comes along, makes another low offer, then rejected, they'll walk away too. Buyers know it's not a good idea to overpay on a house right now. Plus, as a buyer, I've always asked the EA if a previous offer was made and what happened. They usually tell you it was rejected because it was "too low". That's the message every buyer will get - that every buyer who preceded them ALSO thought it was over priced.

So this idea of "the sellers can sit back and wait for the best price" doesn't make sense... those buyers will be long gone, especially in this buyer's market. They won't be around to take the house. The "best price" doesn't exist. The best price is whatever the seller is offered then and there.

Imo, that's a gamble a seller is making in a market downturn that works against them.

OP, make whatever offer you think the house is worth. In this market, you have nothing to lose.

Thanks for your comment. Completely agree, they can wait all they want but the longer they wait the more people will make lower offers too as it’s been on the market for a while

OP posts:
WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 18:34

KievLoverTwo · 17/07/2024 16:04

Replying to various points from you and from others.

>Because it’s priced in the same region as other bigger much nicer houses in nicer streets and with better spec?

How familiar are you with the area, OP? We're buying a house on a street that I thought was overpriced, I thought there were far prettier, leafier roads with bigger houses and sort of looked at £ per sq ft. What I didn't know: my future road is far quieter and is a cul-de-sac (so desirable), doesn't have parking on both sides (easier to get your car in), and, unlike the other roads I thought were desirable, doesn't have a bunch of houses that have been turned into flats, which is apparently not desirable. So I thought our street was less desirable, turns out it's not. I didn't have that in-depth local knowledge.

>We saw another house in the same area that was also last sold 6-7 years ago, and has an asking price of 10% more than the last sold price which we thought could be a helpful guide, but that is a new build (so has probably lost some value?) and has had a lot of improvements done including landscaping the garden (which has increased the value) so we’re not sure if the price increase is comparable as the house we are looking at isn’t a new build or had any improvements done.

New builds actually take a long time to lose value, but in the current market, second hand new builds are ten a penny, so they're being forced to drop their prices really low in order to make a sale.

10% above their purchase price after 7 years AND after doing a bunch of work is a really, really low asking price; except to say, people can take their pick of secondhand new builds at the moment (they seem to make up the majority of people who have over-leveraged themselves with expensive mortgages) and therefore do. So secondhand new build sellers are being forced to be brutality realistic about the market, and are pricing low.

Old home owners: not so much. They have character and can afford to wait it out for the right buyer.

>You can't necessarily tell if any changes have been made to the property, without asking the sellers.

I think you said you discussed it with the sellers but I always make a point of looking at online planning/approvals, where I can find: updated electrics, replaced windows and doors, wood burning stoves installed with a FENSA certificate, and so on. That's the 'hidden' value that estate agents don't often put in their marketing.

>There's is a much more buoyant market where I live for mid-range houses, so the typical 3 bed semis in nice areas. They're going like hotcakes and this pushes up their value.

This PP is absolutely spot-on. There's a bunch of people with very large houses downsizing right now, so the competition for your average 3 bed semi is hot.

I think they were right in also saying that far bigger homes aren't selling. You may see larger homes for cheaper than they would usually be because of this. Big home owners are being forced to reduce their prices.

However, it's NOT hot for homes that need a lot of work doing to them. So, if the kitchens and bathrooms are from the 90s and it all looks quite depressing, that's quite unlikely to be flying off the shelf. The ones that are smart and quite modern are going within a week or two. Don't get hooked in by an enthusiastic EA saying 'everyone wants 3 bed semis at the moment, there's a lot of competition in that market' if you can see with your own eyes that the house needs 40k in kitchen and bathroom upgrades. Only in the most desirable of areas are these sorts of homes still selling.

Do you have Property Log to see price drops?

Edited

Yes we know the area well, no we don’t have properly log we’re first time buyers so haven’t heard of it? Where can we look at online planning/approvals?

OP posts:
WayTooBigForYourBoots · 17/07/2024 18:42

RunningThroughMyHead · 17/07/2024 17:32

Let's face it, either they're out of OPs budget or the house has more going for it than they're letting on. Of course no one would want a house that's overpriced, especially when the person has researched everything and KNOWS it's overpriced.

Well they would if they get it for a reasonable price. And that’s why researching and making a sensible offer is important. Silly comment.

OP posts:
GlassOfMilkandCookies · 17/07/2024 19:34

Blueuggboots · 17/07/2024 16:03

We've recently had an offer accepted on a property that we felt was overpriced. We wrote a polite email saying we'd researched similar properties in the area and felt that the offer we were making was appropriate given the presentation of the property and the local market.
We offered £480,000 on a £550,000 priced house that has been on the market at that price for 6 months. We had been led to believe by the EA that they would accept close to £500,000. We were expecting to have to increase it but they accepted it!

If you were willing to pay more then that EA was not very good at their job and failed to get the best price out of you for their seller. Good for you though of course!!