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I really, really don't understand (cooker) electrics, so please be gentle

33 replies

KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2024 17:54

We bought this cheap ranger cooker to tide us over in a rental we're desperately trying to get out of. For context we've been through SIX. Two had problems not related to the house, four have had temperature problems*, two of which were secondhand, two of which were not. I've since learned that it's normal for hob rings to turn on and off to regulate heat on ceramic hobs, which is pretty annoying when you have a disability and just need to get things done quickly, so, questions:

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8399469?clickPR=plp:5:7

If you have a look at the Q&A, several of them mention 53A. Idk what that means. My LL had her electrician upgrade the electrics from 13 (?) to 45 whatever after we moved in (she said she'd remove an Aga then point blank refused once she discovered the cost/having to rip floors up - so she paid for him to do it). We bought a secondhand range, I think he fitted it. I asked him if the amps (wattage? See how much this confuses me!) would be enough and he said: yeah it'll be fine, you won't use the whole thing at once very often, and the worst it'll do is trip the fuse. He mentioned 60A (w?) being difficult to install. Idk why.

a) Has he installed electrics that can't actually handle having the oven cavity (or in the case of the first, secondhand rangemaster - 3 cavitites) and all hob rings switched on at once? They're 90cm ranges cookers.

The woman we bought it off was paranoid that we'd get it home and request a refund that she showed us everything working in person. Then it sat in our garage for months until she final got the electrics changed, and the oven was so slow when we finally got it installed that it took me EIGHTEEN HOURS on Xmas Eve to pre-cook our Xmas dinner for x2 people.

b) Is it legitimately NORMAL that when you have two ceramic hob rings turned on at once (with no oven on) that one of them blinkin' turns itself off after five minutes to cool down? I usually have the middle one (the super burny one that has two settings: normal temperature, fast scorchy temperature) and the front right one turned on at once. It still does this no matter which other one I use - and only with two turned on.

This particular cooker cooked fine for a month and I don't recall any problem with it whatsoever, I was over the moon, then suddenly:

Cooking on the bottom shelf became a furnace. Now what happens is: we never know whether it's going to be fast or slow. One day you can pre-heat for 5 minutes and it still takes 40 minutes to cook some oven chips, the next day you can pre-heat it for 5 minutes and they're charred. So,

c) Could dodgy electrics be causing this?

And, finally, the superhot one in the the middle I mentioned - when things started to go wrong, I fried some bacon on that ring one day (because the grill is like a furnace, which someone mentioned in the reviews) and a bit of fat hit this middle ring after I removed it, and

d) it set on FIRE. Is that normal?

Sorry for the wall of text. I'm sick and tired of chucking away money on this house; we don't have good tradesmen around here and most of them know my LL anyway.

If the answer to the above is a resounding 'stop buying cheap crap', I really won't be offended - I would rather just know one way or the other. Because of this ongoing oven debacle we've been living off absolute crap for almost two years, and we only intend to be here another six months because we're buying a house.

"Suck it up then Kiev"

Yeah, if we weren't both displaying symptoms of malnutrition, I might be inclined to do that. My OH is also gluten intolerant, and one of my main motivators for this property was the ability to be able to easily cook good, healthy food in a big oven (big oven because of disability).

*The other three with issues: a pre-installed 50cm that came with the house; took forever to grill, electrics were 13 back then. Then the electrics were upgraded and we had to get rid of the slow, secondhand 90cm range, and we bought our old 60cm in from the garage (which was a year old at this point). Suddenly the grill took 45 minutes to cook sausages. The third was a 90cm range and I think I had similar problems to the above (especially re: hobs turning on and off). We also had a 90cm induction - the problem with that one was that the circles on the hobs were so feint that you literally couldn't see it in our kitchen - I had to hang a torch over them to see them.

Thanks for reading/helping if you got this far.

OP posts:
c3pu · 20/06/2024 18:00

A) peak load (ie everything on) is 32Amps. The reply is a typo, they meant to type 25 Amps.

If you have a 45 amp breaker (and thick enough cable - probably 10mm off the top of my head) you'll be fine.

bluecomputerscreen · 20/06/2024 18:00

too long to read...

but we are looking to replace our gas range with an electric range and can't (without considerable expense) because it would require an extra lead/separate circuit with different 'strength'.

so yes, that my be the problem you are having.

c3pu · 20/06/2024 18:01

B) difficult to say for sure but I'd assume it's got a thermostat that turns it off when it gets too hot. Do all the rings do it?

c3pu · 20/06/2024 18:03

C) that's an oven problem not an electrical installation problem. I'd be suspecting an element is a faulty or the thermostat is duff.

c3pu · 20/06/2024 18:04

D) fat burns. Not abnormal for hot fat to hit a very hot surface and catch fire.

TheCrenchinglyMcQuaffenBrothers · 20/06/2024 18:06

B) is normal to turn on and off due to temp on a ceramic hob. Someone else more knowledgeable will answer the other questions.....but....

So, you've still got the Aga? Why don't you use that?

c3pu · 20/06/2024 18:11

Regarding the last point of things suddenly taking a lot longer to cook/work properly, that is odd. Could be a complete coincidence. When they upgraded the electrics, they should have just run a new, thick cable for the cooker, leaving your regular circuit at 13 amps. So when you boil a kettle, for example, that should use a normal socket and be fine. But your cooker circuit, if it is wired incorrectly and doesn't supply the correct power, could possibly cook things poorly as a result.

However I think that is highly unlikely. The hob uses far more energy than the oven in my experience, and if it gets bastard hot (hot enough to set fat on fire) then the electrics are giving enough power to get and oven up to temperature...

TheCrenchinglyMcQuaffenBrothers · 20/06/2024 18:12

He mentioned 60A (w?) being difficult to install. Idk why

Presumably because the cabling would have to be changed to 10mm. However, you said he installed 45amp and Rangemaster (for example) certainly advise 10mm for that too.

KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2024 18:13

TheCrenchinglyMcQuaffenBrothers · 20/06/2024 18:06

B) is normal to turn on and off due to temp on a ceramic hob. Someone else more knowledgeable will answer the other questions.....but....

So, you've still got the Aga? Why don't you use that?

a) It's a rust bucket which b) requires an engineering degree to operate and c) would use £120 a week in electricity because it has to be turned on 24/7 and finally d) apparently it turns an already excessively warm area into a furnace.

OP posts:
KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2024 18:14

c3pu · 20/06/2024 18:01

B) difficult to say for sure but I'd assume it's got a thermostat that turns it off when it gets too hot. Do all the rings do it?

The middle ring - the one that goes to approximately volcanic temperature never, ever does it. Only the other ones.

OP posts:
c3pu · 20/06/2024 18:16

KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2024 18:14

The middle ring - the one that goes to approximately volcanic temperature never, ever does it. Only the other ones.

Sounds like normal operation then!

KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2024 18:17

bluecomputerscreen · 20/06/2024 18:00

too long to read...

but we are looking to replace our gas range with an electric range and can't (without considerable expense) because it would require an extra lead/separate circuit with different 'strength'.

so yes, that my be the problem you are having.

I'd be interested to know what kind of cost difference there is between 45 and 60 - I understand 60 is a whole different ball game.

45 presumably cost my LL an hour of the electrician's (and he's cheap, we've paid him twice to install cookers) and whatever electrical guff he needed to change at the wall.

Sorry for your dilemma though :(

OP posts:
KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2024 18:19

c3pu · 20/06/2024 18:16

Sounds like normal operation then!

I'm alright with knowing we didn't know what we were doing and what we bought was crap. But before I even contemplate a 7th oven, I want to do my best to ensure it's not just crap electrics and it's a particular run of bad luck/a result of being frugal.

Do induction hobs on range cookers do the on/off thing as well?

I don't remember that happening with the one we had to return (because you couldn't see the rings), but then they also don't light up, so who knows?

OP posts:
UnitedOps · 20/06/2024 18:27

We had similar issues with electric cookers and the landlord kept replacing it with new but cheap cookers. Bought a new cooker but also bought extra warranty protection (costs 4.50 a month). No surprise we had several issues relating to electrics at the beginning but all fixed by the company. If issues persist, they do replace the cooker. I suggest you buy a new cooker, get them to fit it and buy extra warranty protection.

BitzNBobz · 20/06/2024 18:34

Did you get a manual wth the oven OP?

KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2024 18:34

UnitedOps · 20/06/2024 18:27

We had similar issues with electric cookers and the landlord kept replacing it with new but cheap cookers. Bought a new cooker but also bought extra warranty protection (costs 4.50 a month). No surprise we had several issues relating to electrics at the beginning but all fixed by the company. If issues persist, they do replace the cooker. I suggest you buy a new cooker, get them to fit it and buy extra warranty protection.

We're not going to be around for long enough to do that. Hopefully maximum 7 months.

And the last time we tried to send a cooker back because it turned up without the grill shelves, they wanted us to wait 3 weeks to literally send a man out to fit them. The parts arrived a week after we sent it back.

If the warranty means really quick service, it might be worth it. But, does it?

OP posts:
KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2024 18:35

BitzNBobz · 20/06/2024 18:34

Did you get a manual wth the oven OP?

Which oven in particular? The one that's currently going wrong? If so, yes.

OP posts:
BitzNBobz · 20/06/2024 18:39

Is there anything in that regarding the hob performance? Or possibly under the troubleshooting section?

soupfiend · 20/06/2024 18:40

Why do you need or want a range cooker OP?

I seem to recall when we had an electric oven installed (with gas hob) - I had never had an electric oven before, not sure why we chose that actually,,,, but the electrics had to be changed/upgrated or something like that, to cope with the oven.

KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2024 18:41

c3pu · 20/06/2024 18:16

Sounds like normal operation then!

I found the spec:

2x1200W
2x1800W
1000-2200W

So we'd be using x1 @ 1800 and x1 @ 2200 when the 1800 keeps switching itself off.

The trouble is, the 1000-2200W one is the biggest space, best for frying, woks etc. And if you use it on the 1000 setting, it's absolutely crap.

I suppose that's my fault for not knowing enough about wattage.

OP posts:
KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2024 18:42

soupfiend · 20/06/2024 18:40

Why do you need or want a range cooker OP?

I seem to recall when we had an electric oven installed (with gas hob) - I had never had an electric oven before, not sure why we chose that actually,,,, but the electrics had to be changed/upgrated or something like that, to cope with the oven.

Because of my disability. They're far easier to access/bend down to get stuff in and out. I'm not just being an oven snob. It's for a practical reason.

OP posts:
KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2024 18:44

BitzNBobz · 20/06/2024 18:39

Is there anything in that regarding the hob performance? Or possibly under the troubleshooting section?

It's very basic and doesn't cover these problems:

https://documents.4rgos.it/v1/static/8399469_R_D001

Page 34

https://documents.4rgos.it/v1/static/8399469_R_D001

OP posts:
KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2024 18:53

For goodness sake, I HATE being an adult. How are you supposed to just KNOW this stuff?

I just turned the x2 smallest ones on at once, 1200W, and one of them turned itself off after five minutes.

I CANNOT STAND ON MY FEET WHILST YOU WAIT TO WARM UP AGAIN. That is not how my disability works!!!

Sorry for the rant :(

As you were.

OP posts:
Scampuss · 20/06/2024 19:10

It sounds like an electrics problem not a cooker problem.

With the amount you are spending, and as you're not staying there anyway, can you get a decent air fryer to use as an oven and a multi cooker for hob stuff? It will mean you won't have to bend down to the oven which might be helpful.

(Becky Excell has a new GF air fryer book out...)

bluecomputerscreen · 20/06/2024 19:18

or if you have a microwave - most are combi use anyway.

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