windows have no FENSA certificate - Building control fines?

[NeedAdvicePlzz]

Hi all
I had an offer accepted on a house and the vendor confirmed (via the EA) that the windows were installed in 2018 and FENSA certified. I looked up the property's FENSA certificates on the site today but It doesn't show the property has any FENSA certificates.

The site also says if the installation of windows and doors aren't registered with FENA within 2 years, then the certificate is no longer valid (I'm assuming a paper certificate?). Apparently, this means that they are deemed unsafe unless checked by the council's Building Control inspect them and issue a certificate themselves (at the home owner's expense).

Since it was several years ago now, can Building Control still inspect the installation of is it too late. If it's too late, will they impose a fine and force the windows to be removed?

Just to share: I will not get indemnity insurance for this. I don't want to inherit building safety and regulation problems from the previous owner.

I have created this thread to see if anyone has any experience of this. Thank you

I don't need to start a new thread. I'm highlighting a chancel repair indemnity is quite common as the church owns a lot of land in the uk. You will likely come up against this while you continue your search for more housing stock. As you seem to know so much about buying houses, I'm surprised you've never heard of it,

@NeedAdvicePlzz your confusion sums it up perfectly. I live about 20 miles away from church but I may still have a liability so took a 'dirty' insurance.

Last time I checked my house was a normal 4 bed residential house.

In relation to 'normal' homes as you are not getting my point, I hope the sellers haven't installed a satellite dish, built a shed, had more than 2 pets or parked a work van on the drive when their deeds say they cant - they would all need indemnity insurance as they have breached the covenants.

Parish and town councils cover 91% of England so I'm not sure why you think they don't apply to you.

You sound very naive. You also said you had t instructed searches but then said your searches showed there was no chancel responsibility. Are you doing your own form of conveyancing before instructing?

They probably rang the church to ask if there was a liability nullifying the indemnity insurance the owner has

All windows installed after 2004 are required to have vents, or they can’t be fensa certified. Unless the existing windows are old enough they don’t have vents.

i think we’ll get fewer and fewer houses with fensa certs as ventilation gets better and people, like me, don’t want to pay for super insulating glazing then undo it with a vent.

i have half latches for ventilation so don’t even need vents.

Poor vicar!

He’d have to get someone in Canterbury to get the scrolls out

The sellers have dodged a bullet, if it wasn’t the windows it would be something else you’d want to nitpick about. How unsafe do the windows look? Have you checked them? Has the glass blown in any of them? Do you look like they’re about to fall out? How unsafe can windows get? Did they not pass your risk assessment? Utterly ridiculous

Ah OK. No they're older, and yes we have half latches too. It is an anomaly that advice is to block all drafts, and then mandate to create them!

@NeedAdvicePlzz I have used an old school master craftsman to install a couple of replacement windows in my house during other works. My house is very old but not listed. They are not FENSA certified because the craftsman makes so few windows per annum it would not be worth either his while or to customers the cost of registration. Are the windows unsafe? No. Are they any different to the window he would’ve made if he was FENSA registered? No. Has he made exact replicas of what was removed but with added draught- proofing, safety glass and with discreet slimline double gazing? Yes. Have they added value to the COL at the house, safety of the users and reduced heat loss? Yes. Will I enjoy these windows for tens of years? Yes. Will it be an issue when we come to sell? Possibly, but I doubt it.

I once had to download FENSA certs on another property but I put into the registration search box the details of the installer incorrectly by one letter. It returned a non-registration which was not the case. Are you certain this is not the case here?

There are many issues with houses you should focus your energies on and FENSA certs are not really what you should be focussing on IMO. Arsehole neighbours, parking wars, The widening of flood risk areas by insurers, Boundary disputes, replacement roof tiles in a material heavier than the original materials (think cement tiles vs slate or a previously thatched roof now with slate which the roof structure cannot bear - all of which makes your buildings insurance invalid as work done by a previous homeowner is not covered by your insurer) unsuitable foundations, undisclosed underpinning, unconnected drains, etc etc. all of these things I have either experienced or had a close friend experience in the last few years….

And for the record, having bought many properties both in urban and rural areas, very few have not required chancel insurance. It is not possible to accurately predict where chancel insurance is required and despite it being a ‘dirty’ indemnity policy, you’d be very naïve not to get one.

Good luck though in your search to find the perfect house without making any compromises…!

People are trying to explain that while you object so strongly to ‘dirty’ indemnity insurance and think it’s pointless, the chancel repair indemnity is vital if you are buying a house with chancel repair liability:

This seems like a hoo ha. How much do you like the house? Mine has the original Victorian sash windows- that was part of the deal. I think you’re stressing about nothing.

@NeedAdvicePlzz
Had something similar when buying 3 years ago. No certificate. Company didn’t even have a certification at time of installation. But had subsequently got it. The vendor paid them £25 for a certificate and all was well - literally found out days before exchange so was a bit of a panic but there was no issue at the time or since.

@NeedAdvicePlzz definitely don’t give up - our vendors sorted our issue out, which was picked up by conveyancer. So let them know and they can address it.

The chances of the windows being 'unsafe' is absolutely negligible. How many instances of death by dangerous windows do you hear of?

You'll never complete a purchase with this approach unfortunately. People being a little less than perfect with admin doesn't = unsafe houses. Compromise will be needed (on your part!) otherwise you will drive yourself crazy as well as have nowhere to live.

Oh dear OP.

You will never buy a house with your mind set, I have never given a crap about a FENSA certificate, I can see if the windows are correctly fitted.

The house I live in now had FENSA certificate and 3 windows have blown and were letting in water between the panes of glass. Nothing could be done, the windows in my old house were better and had no FENSA cert.

If I was the seller I would be thanking my lucky stars that you were acting like a dick so early on.

Have you ever purchased a property before?

I’ve had a new bathroom window installed by a reputable local company who always seem very busy. The previous window was put in by the developer when house was new build 16 years ago. Latch broke and had a couple of opinions saying it was not fixable. I can tell that the new window is much better quality than the one that was originally there (it has a vent). However I do know the firm I used are not fensa registered because I did ask that at the time but still decided to use them as they are well recommended locally. so I guess im going to have this problem when I sell and so will everyone else who has used them.

so far after about a year the window has not fallen out and there are no problems with it whatsoever.

I had windows handmade on the premises by a carpenter, and fitted with double glazed glass panels. No FENSA certificate. When queried by purchasers solicitors I told them the windows were handmade and not from a commercial supplier. No further questions or problems.

This is absolutely crackers OP 🤣 imagine losing your house purchase over this!

Are you a first time buyer OP?

There will be plenty of cases where vendors just don't know about whether windows got certificates or not. Especially if they are executors or similar. It's really extremely trivial in the overall scheme of things when buying an actual house when compared to things like roof problems and suchlike. If an issue like this causes you to drop out of a sale, I;m not surprised you have had purchases fall through- brace yourself for a lot more sales to fall through.
Divorcing couples can be problematic. I know, we bought from a very problematic pair ourselves. But if you are flexible on timescales, and/or the partners are civilised, they can work as well as any other sale.

I do think that vendors are wise to get all their ducks in a row before a sale. But if they genuinely thought the windows had fensa certificates, they may have thought they had sorted everything out. It really is such a non-issue, and such an easy thing to sort out, I can hardly believe anyone would drop out on that basis from a purchase they actually wanted in the first place.

You can have vents that you can shut when you don't want them open....

If you were trying to buy from me, your sale would fall through. Because I would not do business with you, or anyone like you.

We'd taken out a wall and a chimney breast in the house I sold last year without building regs, £20 indemnity incase building regs inspector ever knocks on the door, all sorted.

Yes I know. And that is what I had in the previous windows.

even when shut when the wind got up they’d whistle, and there’d be a draught. The house takes a lot to heat, so we thought we’d upgrade. More minor but they also sucked up dust and dirt, and looked black.

the new windows with no vents have much better soundproofing, and the heating bills have gone down noticeably. As the installer said they would- you’ve got perfectly sealed units, by venting them you no longer have the seal for sound and heat proofing.

I've had all the windows in my house replaced in various stages since then and none have vents. They all have Fensa certs though. Or do you mean if the ones they are replacing didn't have vents then the new ones don't have to either?