windows have no FENSA certificate - Building control fines?

[NeedAdvicePlzz]

Hi all
I had an offer accepted on a house and the vendor confirmed (via the EA) that the windows were installed in 2018 and FENSA certified. I looked up the property's FENSA certificates on the site today but It doesn't show the property has any FENSA certificates.

The site also says if the installation of windows and doors aren't registered with FENA within 2 years, then the certificate is no longer valid (I'm assuming a paper certificate?). Apparently, this means that they are deemed unsafe unless checked by the council's Building Control inspect them and issue a certificate themselves (at the home owner's expense).

Since it was several years ago now, can Building Control still inspect the installation of is it too late. If it's too late, will they impose a fine and force the windows to be removed?

Just to share: I will not get indemnity insurance for this. I don't want to inherit building safety and regulation problems from the previous owner.

I have created this thread to see if anyone has any experience of this. Thank you

I once had an issue with a flat (not windows but an internal wall). I spoke to a planning lawyer who said after a couple years the council couldn't care less about building regs. They aren't going to come round and fine you! But listed building department would (it was listed). After that the whole FENSA thing seemed irrelevant.
My current windows do not meet current code and I have no idea if they have a certificate. I can see they are safe and do the job, and unless I change them it doesn't matter.
My last house I paid loads to get double glazed sash windows installed. I only found out later when building control came to inspect something else that they were not up to code. Didn't matter when I sold, but depends how tick boxy the buyer's solicitor and buyer is (ie you). So while I think indemnity insurance is not worth the paper it's written on, lawyers accept it. The fact they only cost a couple hundred pounds indicates to me they don't pay out much. The seller should pay for it in your case. But as for the actual windows? They are probably fine, building regs change all the time and most period houses probably don't meet hardly any current ones in terms of construction.

*Yes but Fensa certs are a standard request on solicitors questions

ie. Have any windows been installed since April 2004
answer….yes
please supply fensa certificate.*

But the OP was asking about building control, not about solicitors. If I was buying I'd look at the windows and so long as they looked okay and my surveyor didn't spot any problems, I really wouldn't be bothered about a piece of paper. As indeed I wasn't when I bought my current house. My buyers for the house I sold didn't ask for anything either.

Exactly. New builds are awful, but will keep many buyers happy as all the boxes will be ticked! Give me an old property over a new build any day!

If they want to sell on though.
They will be asked and tbh it’s a standard request.

Oh dear. So you’ve informed building control the windows don’t have a fensa cert.

so now no one buying the house can get an indemnity.

i’d be furious if I were the sellers.

Have any windows been installed since 2004 - answer no. This is the issue with all thses requirements, so a window installed on 31st December 2003 does not require a piece of paer, but one installed on 01 january 2004 does. The whole system does nothing to ensure there is no shoddy installs of windows and various other parts of a house.

Part P regs for electrics are the same. Give buyers a part P certificate, doesn't mean the electrics are safe but everyone is happy as they have their certificate.

Part P regs for electrics are the same. Give buyers a part P certificate, doesn't mean the electrics are safe but everyone is happy as they have their certificate.

Don't give the OP anything else to ring the council / building control over and fuck the seller up even more if they don't have a copy!

I'm on the other side of this as a seller without a FENSA certificate - mine are registered with Assure which is lesser known but does the same thing, as do a few other smaller schemes. So just because they're not on the FENSA website doesn't mean they're not in line with regulations, they could be registered elsewhere.

My windows are not Fensa certified. I remember this coming up when we were buying. We just bought it anyway and didn't think about it again. The windows are fine, they are not unsafe. Some of them don't have vents but we'd never had a house with vents in the windows before anyway. We have been here 15 years and the windows are still in the frames!
Used to live in a house with old sash windows, single glazed, rattled around when something heavy drove even vaguely close. They were probably more unsafe.

Agree with others here - not surprised "everything is going wrong" in your house-hunting if you are getting this dramatic over what ought to be a very insignificant and easily solved issue. You are perfectly free to refuse to accept an indemnity on this and walk away from the purchase but you are going to find this happens again and again and again because these are the kind of standard issues that happen with all house purchases - everyone has bits of paper they've lost or random approvals they didn't get, every house has some little fault that needs repairing and once you own a property you will be responsible for all the maintenance issues that come up over time. Even if you decided to buy a new build so you had every insurance and building reg under the sun signed off, then you'll still have a snagging list to work through. If you want to own a property you simply have to set realistic expectations at some stage down the line.

This isn't my problem, nor my "fault", as you are clearly trying to imply. Vendors should not bringing to market houses that are not ready for sale i.e. basic FENSA registration is not done. Anyone can contact the council about any property, it is public information. If you want to "fault" anyone, fault the vendors who don't keep their homes safe , or make their homes questionably safe.

A piece of paper doesn’t make a house safe.

Your property search is going to be very painful if you want every box ticked

I actually feel much better now, thanks, and glad I'm not going for the house.

Wow, this is seriously OTT behaviour.
When we sold our house, we had no idea that the extension we'd had built did not have the final completion certificate (building regs had been round throughout the build but didn't register the final certificate).
Our buyers found it a non-issue and the solicitors did an indemnity policy.
Job done.

Things come up in house sales/purchases. It's not about people selling houses that are not fit for sale etc.

You are VERY over the top OP. I'd pull out from selling to you.

Thanks, the seller already said in an email they were fensa, but they're not registered. The seller can resolve this themselves, it's their problem and I've asked them to do so and now looking for a new property. if they sort this registration out, I'd reconsider the property.

I've spoken to my solicitor and he has said most buyers he has dealt with (they are a big firm) in the last two years have refused indemnity insurance and requesting vendor fixes the issues, reduces the off more, or regularises the work done via the council. I'm glad buyers are sticking to their guns and not taking on potentially unsafe buildings.

Your solicitor sounds way OTT, maybe he's just trying to maximise the cash he can get from you by getting you to start again with a new property!

It's a homeowners responsibility to ensure the house is safe. That's the law. If anyone has "fucked" up. it's the vendor. I find your logic dangerous to others health and wellbeing.

My solicitor is a family friend and well trusted.

The sellers should be furious with themselves and their installers.

I'm not worried about the council coming "after me". I'm worried about safety. indemnity insurance doesn't protect me if the work is unsafe, it's only about whether the council takes legal action, which I know chances are slim.

Thanks for this. This is what I suggested to the vendor. I looked it up and it seems absolutely fine to do. The council just check the windows (mainly the glass) and then issue the certificate. it's actually not hard to do nor anything for a vendor to worry about. But the responses on this thread asking buyers (me) to just accept a potentially unsafe house vs. the ease of just getting the council to check the windows to issue a certificate is beyond madness. If a vendor can't even do something simple like this about windows, I wonder what else they are hiding.

I feel much better now that I've stuck to my guns. And I'm proud of myself for it. The vendor has their options, I have mine. Good luck in this market finding a buyer who won't fall out or actually doesn't have enough from the lender. Most sales are falling through.

It's public information. And I have every right to ask the council whatever i want. If a seller wants an easy sale, they need to make sure their house is sellable. In addition, I doubt i'm the first one that called the council (knowingly or unknowingly). Other buyers may have done so before me, making indemnity insurance invalid.

And let's be honest here. Why is calling the council so bad? Maybe because indemnity insurance is a back door, secret, under the table piece of insurance that isn't worth the paper it's written on, and covers up unsafe houses and passes them onto new owners (me).

If I took out indemnity insurance, i'd have to pass it onto my future buyers too when I come to sell. I don't want that, especially knowingly about unsafe issues. Why should i or any buyer take on the previous owners mistakes. I'm not a mug. The vendor is for trusting their installers to register their windows to fensa, which they didn't do,. so they can clean up their own mistake.

I was also forthcoming with the seller and said I contacted the council as that's what FENSa advised me - to check the seller had building control certificate instead. They did't. To fault me for this is beyond madness.

As I found out through the council, it's an easy fix for the vendor. They just get an inspection done, where they check the glass, and if it looks okay, they issue the certificate. it can be cleared up in two weeks. My vendor is looking into this now and I said get back to me when it's done.

The vendors windows are literally a few years old. This is a recent change. Not 400 years old, 250 years old, 100. They are literally a few years old. There is no excuse for no certificate for this vendor.