Council house fraud?

[Mundoloco]

My father in law remarried 12 years ago and his new wife went to live with him in his owned house. We have just found out that she never gave up the tenancy and one of her children has been living there. The child was always named as an occupant of the house, as she has grown up there and just stayed there. She now has a partner and two children living there. Now my father in law is ill and his new wife is likely to inherit his house my question is, what happens to her daughter who is living in a council house in her mother's name. Is this fraud?

This is my understanding too

If she and your FIL were legally married and/or he left his house to her in a will, then her council house tenancy will in no way stop her inheriting.

I can't think of any other reason you would be interested, unless you are planning to attempt blackmail, or just act out of spite?

This doesn’t sound like fraud, it sounds like she’s passed it to her daughter. A policy I don’t agree with, we have many three bedrooms council houses near us occupied by a single person. There’s even one family where a son who I’ve never even seen before had moved in when his mum was on her last legs, not to help her but to get his hands on the house. These houses should be given to families.

So you want the DD and her family to be kicked out?

No problem with her inheriting. Just looking for facts.

Nope.

Yes, this.

A person could win the lottery and still legally stay in their council home if they’ve got an assured or protected tenancy. I’m not sure if the same applies to fixed term tenancies but I don’t think that would I be relevant here anyway.

They may have a joint tenancy which obviously wouldn’t be fraud. If there isn’t a joint tenancy and the mum isn’t living there as her primary residence then yes it would. I’m not sure how the landlord would deal with it though, as the daughter grew up there and it is housing the appropriate sized family for the property size.

as pointed out by a previous poster, succession right only come in to play when a person has died.

Absolutely not

Thank you for replying

Get a hobby, Op.

@Mundoloco I gave you factual and sensible advice 3 hours ago

"Being named as an occupant only is not a legal right to reside in the absence of the tenant(s)".

but never mind 🙄

Assuming her daughter is not named on the tenancy (no such thing as assignment with council tenancies, you can just name one successor in the event of your death to continue the tenancy) then once the housing authority (council or HA) get wind of this I would expect all hell to break loose, the tenancy to be terminated and the daughter and her family evicted if they won't leave quietly of their own free will. Then the property will be offered to a genuine tenant who has not tried to cheat the system the way these two have.

I’m not sure this really come under “cheating the system” if the daughter has always lived in the house. It’s not like the mum has moved out and sublet the property to the mafia or to be used as a crack den and it doesn’t sound like she’s profiting from it.

I guess the big consideration is who is paying the rent? The council by way of HB, the Mum or the Daughter and her family.

FIL is in hospital, right? He's not dead yet. If he does die and his wife does inherit, she could move quietly back into her council house and let her daughter's family move into FIL's house. That's if no one tells the council she has been in breach of her tenancy agreement for the last dozen years.

Thanks for your reply.

I'm a housing officer, list out the exact q's you need answered I'm very happy to help.

You'd need to see the tenancy agreement if you want to get that specific then.

Personally I would leave it - it's a house, it's occupied, that's what houses are for.

I don't want to stop her inheriting. Thanks for judging.

Absolutely not!

There is a fair bit of misinformation on this thread. Assuming Mum is the sole tenant...The starting point is always to read the tenancy. The tenancy will generally require the tenant to occupy the property as their "only or principle home". If they don't, it ceases to be an assured or secure tenancy and the landlord could serve a notice to quit and start possession action.

Whether they do that or not will depend on their policies, whether any benefit fraud has been committed, the size of the house Vs it's occupants and demand for housing in the locality.

For example if there has been no benefit fraud and the family, having someone extremely vulnerable in it, is found to be in priority need and qualifying for temporary accomodation they may take a pragmatic approach and issue a new tenancy. They'll be more minded to do so if demand for social housing is lower in that locality than elsewhere and the house isn't under-occupied.

A lot depends on factors that the poster is choosing not to share on here it is difficult to advise well, but hopefully that's a start.

People saying the Daughter may be a joint tenant. I work with the council & I've never seen this. Even adult children are listed as having "occupants". If say an adult child had their own children & a housing need, they'd apply for their own housing.

Assignment is still possible with certain council tenancies, particularly those which started before 2012. OP says the mum married 12 years ago, so the tenancy almost certainly started before 2012.

"You can assign your tenancy to your husband, wife or civil partner if they live with you.
If you do not live with a married or civil partner, you can assign to a close relative who has lived with you for at least 1 year."

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/council_housing_association/assigning_a_tenancy

If the mum hasn't done an assignment, she can still do it now and then the tenancy would be in the daughter's name. If the mum hasn't been occupying the house as her only or main home, she would have been breaching her tenancy agreement and she wouldnt be alllowed to assign. But if she has kept all her mail and other registrations, voting, GP etc at the council house it might be difficult to prove. Inheriting another property doesn't affect a council tenancy, so there is no rush to get it done before she inherits.