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Original poster

Council house fraud?

55 replies

Mundoloco · 19/04/2024 16:54

My father in law remarried 12 years ago and his new wife went to live with him in his owned house. We have just found out that she never gave up the tenancy and one of her children has been living there. The child was always named as an occupant of the house, as she has grown up there and just stayed there. She now has a partner and two children living there. Now my father in law is ill and his new wife is likely to inherit his house my question is, what happens to her daughter who is living in a council house in her mother's name. Is this fraud?

OP posts:
HooseLoose · 19/04/2024 16:59

Maybe, maybe not. Do you know if the original tenancy changed to include the child on there as a joint tenant when they reached 18? There are rules about transfer/rights to live in the property but you would need to see the tenancy agreement to confirm.

LauderSyme · 19/04/2024 17:07

The person or people named as tenant on the tenancy agreement have to occupy the property. That is one of the terms and conditions of sustaining the tenancy. Councils will sometimes terminate the tenancy if they find out that this is not what is happening.

Being named as an occupant only is not a legal right to reside in the absence of the tenant(s).

It is possible to succeed to a council tenancy if certain circumstances apply, so possibly the daughter could apply for a succession, ie. become the tenant in place of her mother. If her application is unsuccessful she will have to leave the property.

Dacadactyl · 19/04/2024 17:08

How do you know the daughter is not registered as the tenant?

BebyDuc · 19/04/2024 17:09

Mind your own business.

menopausalmare · 19/04/2024 17:14

BebyDuc · 19/04/2024 17:09

Mind your own business.

There's a housing shortage - this is everyone's business.

JustSpongeBob · 19/04/2024 17:16

Her dc probably has succession rights if she’s always lived there. It’s not fraud

LauderSyme · 19/04/2024 17:20

Is it possible that the mother has already removed her name from the agreement and legally transferred the tenancy to her daughter? Your OP sounds very sure that this is not the case.

@menopausalmare The thing is, the daughter plus husband and kids need to live somewhere. I am not saying they should be living in that house if they don't have the legal right to do so. But if they have to leave it they will also become victims of the housing shortage.

menopausalmare · 19/04/2024 17:20

JustSpongeBob · 19/04/2024 17:16

Her dc probably has succession rights if she’s always lived there. It’s not fraud

This applies if the mother died.

Bumblebeeinatree · 19/04/2024 17:26

Mundoloco · 19/04/2024 16:54

My father in law remarried 12 years ago and his new wife went to live with him in his owned house. We have just found out that she never gave up the tenancy and one of her children has been living there. The child was always named as an occupant of the house, as she has grown up there and just stayed there. She now has a partner and two children living there. Now my father in law is ill and his new wife is likely to inherit his house my question is, what happens to her daughter who is living in a council house in her mother's name. Is this fraud?

Are you looking to cause your FILs wife trouble? I don't think it would affect her inheriting your FILs house if that is what you want to stop. The daughter may or may not be living there legally, but it seems there is a family living there so not a waste of housing stock, or are they wealthy? Do your worst and tell the council if it's really worrying you.

FoFanta · 19/04/2024 17:28

Maybe she assigned her tenancy to her daughter. My parents did this when they moved out of our council flat (assigned the tenancy to me as I was living there). The tenancy just passed over to me then.

Original poster
Mundoloco · 19/04/2024 19:49

The situation is more complicated and involves an extremely vulnerable person. I'm not willing to go into more details. I'm looking for facts and not judgement.

OP posts:
LauderSyme · 19/04/2024 19:56

So is it an assumption or a definite fact that the daughter is not named as a tenant on the tenancy agreement?

newyear2024 · 19/04/2024 19:58

When you say child..is she an adult? If she's an adult she possibly is down as being either a sole or joint tenant, either paying rent or on housing benefit. If her mum is down as the sole tenant, then they are running the risk that if the mother died..the daughter would lose her home if she has no evidence she is living there.

Where does your F.I.L.s wife get her post too? If it's at her husbands home, then she has passed the tenancy to her daughter - otherwise she would have terminated her tenancy and wouldn't be paying rent/claiming housing benefit to the council house

AllGrownUp1465 · 19/04/2024 20:02

If the daughter was on the tenancy as a joint tenant then she has every right to live there. It’s not like the mother is subletting it for profit… which would be fraud

I think you should just leave it, this seems a bit like a vendetta and not something moral or ethical tbh

At least a family aren’t homeless and costing the council insane amounts of money on temporary housing/private rental benefits or topups

Original poster
Mundoloco · 19/04/2024 20:11

I never said absolutely anything about taking action or vendettas. I'm looking for facts for something very specific which I am not willing to discuss.

OP posts:
Kelly51 · 19/04/2024 20:15

Likely the mother had. joint tenancy with her daughter, my cousin and her son do, both live in the house

3WildOnes · 19/04/2024 20:15

Are you certain that she never gave up the tenancy? I have two friends who live in council properties which were passed on to them by parents.

Original poster
Mundoloco · 19/04/2024 20:17

Yes in certain. Daughter has carried on living there while the sole tennant has lived with my father In law in his house which she will inherit.

OP posts:
LauderSyme · 19/04/2024 20:17

Mundoloco · 19/04/2024 20:11

I never said absolutely anything about taking action or vendettas. I'm looking for facts for something very specific which I am not willing to discuss.

Fair enough OP but can you please give a specific answer to our fact-seeking questions asking who is named as tenant on the tenancy agreement?

LauderSyme · 19/04/2024 20:18

Cross Post. Thanks for confirming.

Sunquest · 19/04/2024 20:18

Does it matter? The DD has to live somewhere or are you going to drip her DP earns a 6 figure salary and they go on multiple holidays a year blah blah.

Original poster
Mundoloco · 19/04/2024 20:20

Child is adult with family. Wife still pays the rent as daughter has never formally been made a joint tenant. This may need to be done shortly as the wife is likely to inherit and therefore be forced into the situation of renouncing the council house

OP posts:
ByNewSnake · 19/04/2024 20:20

Not sure if you are in UK or Ireland.

Ireland - being named does not give automatic rights to succession, its the councils decision, also succession is upon death of the named tenant.

The Mother just moving out & kid taking over tenancy is again the councils decision, but it would depend on her housing need at the time, the property size suiting her needs, how many kids she has, her income, etc. Its complicated & different councils have different rules.

Original poster
Mundoloco · 19/04/2024 20:21

Many thanks for a sensible and factual reply.

OP posts:
ByNewSnake · 19/04/2024 20:24

Sorry just read your comment that the wife still pays the rent, sounds like it's all being done on the QT. I'm surprised no one has reported that the Mother is no longer living there.

I'd a friend in council house, his Mum moved abroad, he was single, 30 something, no kids & within 3 weeks of her moving he was issued with 28 days notice to quit and had to leave.