Would you pull out of the house buying process?

[shipmunk]

Went to view a house recently, everything looks good however subsequently found out that the house extension that was done about 30 years ago has no certificate of completion in place and sellers are not willing to retrospectively apply for one due to it being a long time ago and they don't remember the details. Sellers have assured that the extension have been approved by building reg but has no certificate to prove it. When questioned further, sellers quoted that maybe there was a certificate but it was sent to the builder who are no longer in business or maybe they lost/ misplaced it or they might not have applied for the certificate 😕

My questions are:

1. If building regulation approval was indeed obtained, how was this provided if not in form of a certificate of completion? I understand that the completion certificate is not a huge thing 30 years ago but surely the approval if obtained must be recorded somewhere following inspection by building reg? How I would go about establishing with building reg team that approvals were in place if there is no certificate and without drawing unnecessary attention to the property is beyond me..

2. If building reg approval was in place (just not in the form of certification of completion), would requesting a certificate now be judged based on current building regulations instead of at time of construction 30 years ago?

3. Giving the benefit of the doubt, if the certificate of completion was indeed obtained 30 years ago but was lost/misplaced over the years, how difficult would it be to request a copy of the certificate from the local council? Would it still require an inspection from the inspector and be judged against current building regulations?

I'm already aware of the option of indemnity insurance coupled with structural survey etc but I am not keen on this route at all. As far as I'm concerned, it's either certificate of completion or walking away.. somehow this wishy washy response about not remembering if there was ever a certificate in place is throwing me off as the situation could be significantly different is there was indeed a certificate but was misplaced rather than not having one in the first place.

Op this won't be the last house in the market you view with exactly the same situation, it's really common. I think your main concern is whether the work was done safely. After 30years the council wouldn't be looking to enforce you remove the extension as too much time has passed but was it done right at the time? Indemnity insurance is a pretty crap solution but it's very common.

It was 30 years ago!

The Council will not come after anyone. If they approved it (which they almost certainly did — if the owners did planning permission properly why would they then get a couple of cowboys in to throw up a dodgy build?) they will have the certificate buried in a paper archive somewhere. It could be found, for a price, but I can’t imagine it would be worth it.

Oh and it’s lack of planning permission that causes the Council to insist that extensions are pulled down (with a limitation of 10 years). Not lack of Certificate of Completion.

Just get a survey.

It wouldn't bother me, it sounds actually like they are being pretty open with you and gave no idea where the certificate is. As it was 30 years ago it wouldn't be that much help anyway, I'd just get one of the more comprehensive building surveys done to check how it is now.

Are you in the UK?

This was 30 years ago, not last year!

Either buy the indemnity insurance like every other buyer, or walk away.

No buyer is this special.

This is terrible advice. If I was asked this as a seller I’d put the house back on the market.

I would only pull out if the structural survey showed that the extension was unsound, which seems unlikely. A survey and indemnity insurance would be fine for me.

It doesn't matter what others think though, it's what you feel comfortable with. If you know that you can't be reassured on this issue, pull out and find something more straightforward. This will save both you and the seller time and money.

The problem is with asking questions like this, some people don’t know what they are talking about. It’s a complete non issue. The council will not care about this and neither will any sensible future buyer. Building regs change frequently (indeed they changed 18 months ago) so something built before that may not pass now! If you like the house and it’s is structurally sound, go for it. If you don’t like it, pull out.

Same, I wouldn't pull out either. Its 30 years, no-one is going to be chasing this. I would get a structural survey and if it was fine I would carry on. However, I am not you and you seem very anxious, so possibly shouldn't continue.

I have been you and walked away. We had a full structural survey and there was no proof of a RSJ. Whatever happened we would have needed to strip it back to check the rsj. Not worth the risk for us. Structural survey also highlighted a lot of botched work like upv windows that had had the lintels removed ( old victorian house)

Whether you use a private approved inspector, or the council's own building control department, a record of the completion certificate will definitely be on the council records.

Will HAVE been on council records. But lots of councils didn't digitise historic records, so early 90s highly unlikely to be available now.

Also if you ask council about it you would invalidate any indemnity you might wish to take.

Also as others who have done work themselves have said - the extension could be 98% compliant & they avoided the completion certificate stage because they knew it wouldn't pass on something that was trivial but convenient to them eg
• floor levels as per previous poster
• location of a light switch
• height of wall sockets
• number of doors between a loo & a kitchen (which seems to have been all over the place in building regs over last 3 decades before arriving back at common sense - I think?)

So it is entirely possible they had one and lost it.

It's also entirely possible they willfully didn't get one because they knew it would fail - but only because of something trivial like above.

It's also entirely possible they built the house of cheese & the live electrics are wired into the cold tap & it's just a miracle no-one has killed themselves in there in the last 30 years & it will realise it's destiny as a "perrrtentiaaal deeearrrthtrap" the day OP moves in.

But probably not, eh!

Going back to the question OP asked though "I'm already aware of the option of indemnity insurance coupled with structural survey etc but I am not keen on this route at all. As far as I'm concerned, it's either certificate of completion or walking away.. "

I hope you've walked away & stopped wasting the sellers time? As 3 pages of 90% common sense about the UK buying process on here won't get you a completion certificate. So you might as well get on & walk.

Good luck in your search for a perfectly documented house...let's hope the next one you like isn't something on old CofE land! 🤞

Will HAVEbeen on council records. But lots of councils didn't digitise historic records, so early 90s highly unlikely to be available now.

Councils will still have records of building regs applications from the early 90s, although perhaps not digitally available on their website.

Also if you ask council about it you would invalidate any indemnity you might wish to take

Taking an indemnity policy to cover work carried out in the early 90s is pretty pointless. No council is taking enforcement action for work carried out that long ago.

When DS bought his first house there were originally no records of the single storey extension. However the council found the building regs/planning certificate number in archives and whilst they couldn't provide a certiifcate they did write a letter confirming the approval number and the date so a council letter was held in place of the certificate.

This went back to the early 80s.

@TheOneWithUnagi I'm a lawyer and that is totally incorrect.

What's incorrect? I've posted various things here. I've also said to speak to the solicitor about it.

The only thing I can spot immediately, is that the period of time a council has in which to take enforcement action has now been increased to 10 years. In theory a council can apply for an injunction beyond the enforcement period, but that is exceedingly rare.

I am however, not a lawyer!

12 months came from my research when we had the same issue I mentioned, I did caveat by "in my understanding" and advise to speak to their solicitor in my next post. I am not a lawyer and never stated as such.

However the point stands that after 30 years the issue isn't the council coming after you for enforcement action! They will only do this if the structure is dangerously unsafe and then you have much bigger issues. If I was satisfied that the structure was safe (the fact it has stood for 30 years suggests it is) then I would be happy. The council is not going to take enforcement action in this situation, that isn't the risk.

Oh don't worry, I agree with everything you've said!

You may find your mortgage company will not give you a mortgage- this is what happened to us because there was no pp for the garage. Thankfully as we were putting down nearly 50% deposit they excluded the garage avalue on the mortgage. I like everything to be in order so pp and cc were obtained however we then also found out internally other works had been done which had no bw either...... Go with your gut!