Would you pull out of the house buying process?

[shipmunk]

Went to view a house recently, everything looks good however subsequently found out that the house extension that was done about 30 years ago has no certificate of completion in place and sellers are not willing to retrospectively apply for one due to it being a long time ago and they don't remember the details. Sellers have assured that the extension have been approved by building reg but has no certificate to prove it. When questioned further, sellers quoted that maybe there was a certificate but it was sent to the builder who are no longer in business or maybe they lost/ misplaced it or they might not have applied for the certificate 😕

My questions are:

1. If building regulation approval was indeed obtained, how was this provided if not in form of a certificate of completion? I understand that the completion certificate is not a huge thing 30 years ago but surely the approval if obtained must be recorded somewhere following inspection by building reg? How I would go about establishing with building reg team that approvals were in place if there is no certificate and without drawing unnecessary attention to the property is beyond me..

2. If building reg approval was in place (just not in the form of certification of completion), would requesting a certificate now be judged based on current building regulations instead of at time of construction 30 years ago?

3. Giving the benefit of the doubt, if the certificate of completion was indeed obtained 30 years ago but was lost/misplaced over the years, how difficult would it be to request a copy of the certificate from the local council? Would it still require an inspection from the inspector and be judged against current building regulations?

I'm already aware of the option of indemnity insurance coupled with structural survey etc but I am not keen on this route at all. As far as I'm concerned, it's either certificate of completion or walking away.. somehow this wishy washy response about not remembering if there was ever a certificate in place is throwing me off as the situation could be significantly different is there was indeed a certificate but was misplaced rather than not having one in the first place.

Hence why you should ask for a discount... When you eventually do some works to the extension (ie: flooring) you will get a new building reg for it, even though technically you only amended a part of it... the piece of paper is the same.

I think you seem far too anxious about this to continue with the purchase. Answers on this thread have mainly been that they wouldn't care about this - it's hugely common in the house buying process and the council won't be coming after anyone on this 30 years later. Speak to your solicitor as well, that's why they are here.

But I'm saying with kindness that if this isn't reassuring you then you should pull out rather than letting this hang over you. If the certificates aren't on the portal you mentioned, you don't want to contact the council, the vendor doesn't have them and you aren't comfortable to proceed without them then you need to pull out.

But your question was "would you pull out..." and the answer is absolutely not.

@Tupster the 3 questions in my original post was what I was hoping for advice on. There has been some useful info from some of the replies here which I would research a little more. I was just answering the replies in case I uncover anymore information that I haven't thought about.. sorry that you felt you were being challenged because I genuinely think there will be stuff to rectify after 30 odd years of building regulations being stricter on insulation, damp proofing etc...

The absence of BR will only be enforceable if the building is unsafe- and your surveyor should be able to say if that is the case.

If it helps, we’re buying a house that lacks building regs for the conservatory, converted garage and porch. It’s just not an issue.

Are you a first time buyer by any chance? This stuff can sound really scary. But it’s not a big deal. And no, I wouldn’t pull out over this.

@funfactjanetisme no, not a ftb but maybe a first with buying a house without building reg. My intention of this post was also to gauge how the majority feels about buying a house in this situation and the warm feeling from here seems that most are not too bothered with the absence of paperwork, so as not to worry about re-selling it in future

It's been there 30 years

No one is going to care at this point

It depends what exactly you’re talking about and what you want to do with the property. An extension? I would want structural and all kinds of people to look at it. Electrician, plumber, gas engineer etc.

If I wanted to extend the extension I might be a bit more nervous about what I may uncover. If I just wanted to make sure it wasn’t going to blow up or fall down then my own surveys would make me happier than a BC certificate.

We are currently renovating and aren’t getting BC sign off for the last part. We have realised it’s impossible for them to sign it off. There’s no solution. There’s a level change between two parts of the house. To make a new doorway through means we have to have a level threshold if we want a fire door. We want a fire door as we think that’s safest. Not a single threshold in our house is level so you won’t get to this one without dieing on the 20 other original (and exempt) ones; so to us it’s just common sense this is no different. To them it’s a computer says no and would condemn the whole project. So no BC for us and we will deal with it when we sell.

So basically it might be a very simple and stupid reason there’s no BC. Nothing majorly untoward. Or it won’t be. No one can tell you online. And 30 years on even with experts you may never know.

At 30 years, assuming it’s not falling down, it’s probably okay. Just get an indemnity and stop stressing.

Just buy a new build , OP.

A piece of paper for something built 30 years ago - it will show you it passed building regs at that time, I can guarantee every single part of it will not meet any of the building regs today. A piece of paper will not change that fact.

Either you are happy to purchase or you are not, as others have said you may be better buying a new build as I feel you are worrying about the wrong issues.

If you really want to buy this house, as the seller to buy an indemnity and have a survey done, that will provide you with far more protection than a piece of paper with a signature and date on from 30 years ago.

Is it a listed building?

Who needs a bungling FUTURE buyer when you already being that person?

Either leave the seller to sell in peace &. butt out.

Or take the indemnity & get on with it.

Also:

1. an indemnity policy protects you against any enforcement action - removing/rectifying would be part of the enforcement so costs WOULD be covered if it cane to it.
2. If you alert the council to a specific case, it will invalidate any indemnity policy, so for the love of god, DON'T be calling them up & asking about it!

Walk away if you're not happy but whatever you do, don't alert the council or you have become that buyer you're worried about in future!

And worst case, if it all kicks off, you might find the seller comes after you in a civil case if you were the one that alerted the council to what is otherwise an everyday non-issue. Just don't be that person.

The council will not care at all about a 30 year old extension. It’s pointless trying to obtain a completion certificate from building regs (if one even exists) as none of it will be done to building regs by todays standards anyway. Get the indemnity policy and just hand it over to your solicitor when you come to sell and they will include it in the contract pack to the new buyer.

Unfortunately with old houses this is what you get and expect.

I had two areas of non compliance on my house. Firstly the roof which had concrete tiles put on from bomb damage after the war and secondly an extension which had been done using an old coal shed.

I got a big discount from the buyer. I took indemnity insurance on the roof paid for by the seller and then went on to demolish the extension following a full structural.

Your risk is all on paper as you've said the work is sound having stood 30yrs.

If you like the rest of the house, I'd take the indemnity insurance and move on. The council won't ask you to upgrade to today's regs, which would largely be impossible due to new requirements for insulation.

Ultimately it is your decision but it should be coloured by the overall state of the house which is more important.

My goodness, OP, you're in a spiral!

Just get indemnity insurance, this is exactly what it's for. I've never bought a house where I didn't need it, it's incredibly common.

The house I'm in now had an extension build in the 80's, and no certification of completion. This will be the case with the overwhelming number of older houses in the UK, and is not seen as a problem.

That's not correct (there is a time limit) and also: that's what indemnity insurance is for.

I think you need to talk with your solicitor to calm yourself down about this. Think about it OP, of all the people you know who've bought s house, and all the people you've read about here on MN, have you EVER heard of what you describe being an issue?

Agreed. Solicitor said NOT to do this. Just get indemnity insurance.

Incorrect.

There is precisely zero chance of the council ever attempting to enforce compliance on an extension constructed 30 years ago.

Even indemnity insurance is utterly pointless, but it’s cheap and seems to give some people peace of mind.

What would you be indemnifying against?

it’s been 30 years!!

The only scenario where the council are going to be remotely interested is if the structure is so poorly constructed it is a danger to public safety, in which case they would have to go to court to obtain an order to take enforcement action.

Presumably at this point it’s obvious to the naked eye, or at least a surveyor, whether the whole thing is about to collapse.

Don't be an idiot. If it was all above board they would have sorted the certificate. It's a lot more likely that some aspect of the build didn't meet the codes in force atcthe time.

If this isn't the case then they can easily get a copy of the certificate from their local authority for a modest fee. If they can't or won't do this it means something is seriously wrong.

Tell them they have 4 weeks to obtain the required proof of signoff. If they don't then yes walk away - the house is not worth buying as you will have huge problems when you come to sell, let alone whatever issues there are that's causing it to be not compliant with building regs.

When we had an extension we had used an approved building inspector who signed everything off rather than the council. Totally legit thing to do, I think we did it because it was quicker than waiting for the council. If they did the same that might explain why the council doesn't have anything on their records. I think the council still gets notified of the work but may not have the records of final sign off.