What's a good offer? house needs modernising.

[offeringneedadvice]

Hi all, so my sister has found a house she likes. Not love, but likes a lot. Just need some advice on what to offer. Thank you for reading this post!!

It is in SE London. The area seems to be experiencing a lot of reductions in houses but not much moving really. Most houses have been on for months. A couple were "sold" but came back on market. Few have sold (but they are super nice and were still reduced). Schools are okay in the area (mostly good). There is a high street with everything my sister needs about 20 min walk away.

The house is on a quiet residential, family street.

This house is a 3 bedder (good sizes) she needs for herself and two growing kids. There's also a study room. It needs updating throughout!! The vendor has done nothing with it in the 35 years they've lived there. They just lived in it with their family and selling now as they are elderly and bought a house in a village near their son. It was rewired 35 years ago.

The house: Two bathrooms (one family sized, another slightly smaller with shower). There are two reception rooms (living, dining), small but doable kitchen, garage (that could be converted to an extra reception room). Neighbours have gone into the loft for an extra two bedrooms - so can add more bedrooms in the future. There is a driveway for two cars (a bit tight though). Garden is good size with a brick storage shed at the back (this has a hole in the roof though and water has poured in from recent storms - very damp and mould growing). ECP C (just).

the walls and ceilings look fine and there don't seem to be any obvious signs of damp of problems. The vendor hasn't painted the walls The EA said it's a "good house structurally" but obviously you need a surveyor really.

The house is up at £725k. It's been on the market for 8 months - so since June 2023! It was reduced after two months to £750k but nothing since - so no reductions for 6 months!! We found out they also put it on market back in 2021 but under a different agent (also at £750k). They have had no interest, no offers ever even for 2021 during the peak. They've only viewings (we are the first to make a second viewing).

My sister wants to offer £640k. These are her reasons:

1. Modernising the house (as mentioned above) which is costly now.
2. No update or value added by the vendor at all while other houses on the street have been updated and gone for 750k-775k in 2022-2023 (they are 3-4 bedroom houses, similar style and layout). Nothing on the the market since mid-2023 that sold.
3. The garden storage roof is damaged which is also powered with electricity! has a hole letting in water and damp and mould issues) - they are not fixing it! The driveway paving tiles are all broken and needs replacing completely.
4. The boiler is 10 years old and not 4 years as we were told by the EA.

I don't want to add a link to the house at all but it is a 1930s house that is about 1200 sq feet. The garden is about 15m x 9m (garden seems fine, nothing too overgrown and not much work needed but its basic - grass and fence, small patio area).

Do you think £640k is a reasonable offer? i think it is but wanted to see what others think! In addition the surveyor's report is not done at this stage and I'm worried about the roof to the house (they've never had it redone) so I have no idea about its state.

Please remember, the house is quite dated. Old wallpaper, old dirty carpets (they wear shoes in the house even to this day), 1970s bathrooms and kitchen needs replacing as soon as move in.

thread title edited by MNHQ at OP's request.

honestly so sorry for the long post!!

The owners are very unlikely to accept 640k on a house listed at 725k. If they were open to offers that low they really should have reduced the price to 675k but they haven't.

Unfortunately, they seem like unrealistic selles so I would say your sisters chances of securing this house are very low.

Worth a try seeing as it's been on so long!

Very much depends where in SE London, but hugely doubt the owners will entertain £630k.

I agree with @Twiglets1 but it is definitely worth a shot. I would refrain from giving all that information about what you consider “needs” doing - I’d take it very badly if someone said that to me, rightly or wrongly, because it’s basically a list of reasons why their house is shit - and they’ve been living in it.

I’d stick to comparisons with comparable properties in terms of price/modernisation, along with the lack of interest to date at the price listed.

thanks all!

@ibelieveinmirrorballs we will definitely not word it like in the post, you're right about that. we don't want to offend them but wanted to share on MN our impressions of the house, and probably that of others too.

But i do want the vendor to understand they are probably never going to sell it.

The area in SE London is a good location but i can imagine people turning their noses up at the house and their first thought, "725k for THIS??".

I think the EAs have had a hard time with this vendor mainly because they want to sell it of course!

my main issue is how theyre just leaving the garden storage roof as is! It makes me wonder about other things they're ignoring.

@ibelieveinmirrorballs makes a lot of sense. House buying is all about trust. If you tell someone their house is shit from.the start, they will just be concerned you will try to gazunder, and won't trust you. If you put in a low.offer with all of that, they will also wonder what your game plan is.

We had a buyer like this, who decided to list all.of the issues with the property ans none of the positives, along with an offer like the one you mention. Our response via the EA (no idea of he passed it on) was "Good luck. You are going to need to with negotiation skills like that.".

To be honest, when we sold last year we had a number if manipulative "we love your property..." letters with offers. I refused to read any of them. All I needed to know was what you were offering and what your position is.

@Flubadubba appreciate your response but my OP is for MN readers, not the vendor. It is also a different mrket now.

If someone refuses to listen to the advice of the agents they employ, or take the hint it not swlling ia giving, then they are highly unlikely to listen to anyone else.

If it's somewhere like SE26 or SE23, they will be highly unlikely to accept the offer as most houses around them will have sold for around the original.price recently, and there is very little on the market. It also has a few features (driveway etc) that are huge bonuses in that area.

@Flubadubba as mentioned in my OP, that's not the case with the area my sister is looking at. a lot of houses have come back to market, only ones sold are the dead nice ones that need zero work (which were a few). Lots of reductions on 2023 prices. as mentioned, the market is not the same as even 6 months ago.

The only person you need to convince is the vendor, not us..! Unfortunately so much of the time even if everything you said is true and the price you offer is completely realistic… the bottom line is the vendor needs to mentally adjust their expectation and accept it.

Often they’re just not that incentivised or there’s some other reason (like financially needing to achieve the listed price) that prevents them reducing asking price.

You will always find some people on here who’ll tell you it’s a bad market, sellers are unrealistic, that 15% under is normal, etc etc - this could all be true but again, the only person who needs convincing the offer is reasonable is the vendor. I’d focus all my attention on managing to make them see this without inadvertently offending them..

@ibelieveinmirrorballs tbf I'm not here to "convince" you. I think i've give a balanced impression of the house and asking if MN think it's a decent offer. the house is outdated and needs a lot of work, but structurally seems okay (but can't say without surveyor) but there is no sign of damp, mould, ceilings walls look good, skirting looks fine, windows average. but there's issue with a few things as listed above in my original post. I agree, it all depends on the vendor's mentality.

to all, thank you for your responses. i think we'll make the offer we believe it's worth. a vendor who is letting their house depreciate with a broken roof in their garden storage doesn't seem reasonable to us and maybe a red flag. we will just nip it and move on if they reject it.

Maybe they’re in financial difficulty and can’t afford to sort it out? I wouldn’t deduce that they’re “unreasonable” from it, but I would agree it’s likely the house won’t have been maintained well and could have issues.

I know you’re not here to convince us, but you’re being a bit defensive to those saying £640k is unlikely to be accepted.

Edited to add, there’s nothing wrong with a 10 year old boiler! Good ones last for at least double that.

hmmm I don't think i'm being defensive at all.?? I've read the comments and thanked . I do think a pp bringing their own upset about buyers slagging off their house was a bit unnecessary for my thread tbf and not really helpful to me based on their emotions from their own sale. but other than that, i do agree writing the email offer needs to not offend the vendor. not really thinking beyond these posts as just... posts? i've agreed with others help and that is all i wanted. not really sure anyone needs to read into anything more 😳

True, they might be in financial difficulty, but i wouldn't know. all i know is, that shouldn't be a buyer's problem to inherit unless it's been factored into the price, which is all me and my sister are doing. it's just a business transaction. the boiler is more about being told it's 4 years old when it's 10. that to me does not sound good and obv used to make a sale

You omit the most relevant point: location. Nobody would sell a four bed house at <700k in SE zone 2-3. If it's zone 4 and above, then sure.

Yeh, that's probably true. But it's a 3 bedder. Granted, two a good sizes, third is ok (definitely not a box room though).

This is how old their decoration is: they still have their kids names on the doors! Their kids are fully grown 45 years old now. I think it's cute. But just to say how little they have done with the house.

Let your sister offer 640k if that is the maximum she is happy with. Put it in writing, no need to give details to justify the offer.
As others have said, the seller appears to be an unrealistic one (there are lots around at present) so the chances of the offer being accepted are not high. I don't think there is anything you can do to change people's mind in these situations; they have to figure it out themselves over time. Meanwhile, as you realise, the value of their property is falling.

Even 3 bed, only properties going <700k are doer upper or auctions. If you are in no rush to move, can always put a lowball offer and hope market continues to slide for vendor to eventually come back.

Just make an offer, maybe not that low, but what you realistically think might be acceptable.

A house that was reworked in the 90s is sill modern hood wiring.
The fact that the paintwork is dated doesn't affect value much.
Usually a shed isn't even included in the sale: a solid garden store is a bonus even if it needs a roof repair.
It may be that the house is overpriced for the area, but it isn't because of any of the things you've listed.
Your sister can try a lowball offer but it can't be for any of the things you've included I don't think as none of them are significant issues. An offer of 10% or more under price is usually because there's a significant issue. Your sister doesn't like the decoration. The house is sound. The driveway and shed are not maintained. 10 years on a decent quality boiler is nothing.
She can try, but the offer of 640k (12% under price) is going to be pretty insulting (to most buyers) in the absence of a serious issue.

A house that was rewired in the 90s is still modern and up to current code. Sorry for typos/autocorrects.

This one hasn't had a single offer on the normal market, not even sub 700k, so presumably it isn't worth the same as the ones you have seen selling at auction.
The OP's sister should offer what it is worth to her and then move on if it is not accepted.

‘But I do want the vendor to understand that they’re probably never going to sell it.’

Don’t think about educating the vendor. This is not what this is about — and why you do come across as a bit defensive.

There is only one question: what is the most that your sister would be prepared to pay for the house? What is it worth to her? That is what she should offer. And if they don’t accept it, she should leave it on the table for, say, two weeks, then move on.

It may or may not be a ‘reasonable’ offer, but reason’s got nothing to do with it. Is it a price on which both parties can agree?

Thanks, we will definitely think about this. I do feel the cost to update is quite significant right now though as tradespeople are expensive. Of the list, the roof in the garden storage does seem significant to me though. It can be fixed but it will cost a lot as I dont know the extent of damage. The storage is definitely suffering from damp and mould . they wont at least stop more rain from going in even if they can’t fix it right away and it’s still Feb with colder rainy weather. :(

Hmmm What is defensive about “But I do want the vendor to understand that they’re probably never going to sell it.”? I dont get that. Genuinely .

yea, i think if it gets rejected she will move on. She likes the house. If it was love she’d probably offer a bit more. Ideally, she wants to fix the price, agree to it now and make a quick sale. We will defo keep the offer email short