What's a good offer? house needs modernising.

[offeringneedadvice]

Hi all, so my sister has found a house she likes. Not love, but likes a lot. Just need some advice on what to offer. Thank you for reading this post!!

It is in SE London. The area seems to be experiencing a lot of reductions in houses but not much moving really. Most houses have been on for months. A couple were "sold" but came back on market. Few have sold (but they are super nice and were still reduced). Schools are okay in the area (mostly good). There is a high street with everything my sister needs about 20 min walk away.

The house is on a quiet residential, family street.

This house is a 3 bedder (good sizes) she needs for herself and two growing kids. There's also a study room. It needs updating throughout!! The vendor has done nothing with it in the 35 years they've lived there. They just lived in it with their family and selling now as they are elderly and bought a house in a village near their son. It was rewired 35 years ago.

The house: Two bathrooms (one family sized, another slightly smaller with shower). There are two reception rooms (living, dining), small but doable kitchen, garage (that could be converted to an extra reception room). Neighbours have gone into the loft for an extra two bedrooms - so can add more bedrooms in the future. There is a driveway for two cars (a bit tight though). Garden is good size with a brick storage shed at the back (this has a hole in the roof though and water has poured in from recent storms - very damp and mould growing). ECP C (just).

the walls and ceilings look fine and there don't seem to be any obvious signs of damp of problems. The vendor hasn't painted the walls The EA said it's a "good house structurally" but obviously you need a surveyor really.

The house is up at £725k. It's been on the market for 8 months - so since June 2023! It was reduced after two months to £750k but nothing since - so no reductions for 6 months!! We found out they also put it on market back in 2021 but under a different agent (also at £750k). They have had no interest, no offers ever even for 2021 during the peak. They've only viewings (we are the first to make a second viewing).

My sister wants to offer £640k. These are her reasons:

1. Modernising the house (as mentioned above) which is costly now.
2. No update or value added by the vendor at all while other houses on the street have been updated and gone for 750k-775k in 2022-2023 (they are 3-4 bedroom houses, similar style and layout). Nothing on the the market since mid-2023 that sold.
3. The garden storage roof is damaged which is also powered with electricity! has a hole letting in water and damp and mould issues) - they are not fixing it! The driveway paving tiles are all broken and needs replacing completely.
4. The boiler is 10 years old and not 4 years as we were told by the EA.

I don't want to add a link to the house at all but it is a 1930s house that is about 1200 sq feet. The garden is about 15m x 9m (garden seems fine, nothing too overgrown and not much work needed but its basic - grass and fence, small patio area).

Do you think £640k is a reasonable offer? i think it is but wanted to see what others think! In addition the surveyor's report is not done at this stage and I'm worried about the roof to the house (they've never had it redone) so I have no idea about its state.

Please remember, the house is quite dated. Old wallpaper, old dirty carpets (they wear shoes in the house even to this day), 1970s bathrooms and kitchen needs replacing as soon as move in.

thread title edited by MNHQ at OP's request.

They are not letting their house depreciate due to a hole in the roof of a storage shed. That’s absurd.

You think the solution is to update all electrics and repair shed. At most my solution as vendor would be pay £50 for electrician to disconnect shed electrics. Sheds don’t need electricity.

I really wouldn’t get carried away with justifying your price. Nobody reading it cares and it will be likely to irritate as you are clearly inexperienced - you will sound ridiculous citing a shed and 10 year old boiler.

Everyone viewing from online knows the deal is you’re paying for the bones and the plot. It’s a refurb.

If you feel it’s overvalued just offer what you think it’s worth. But it’s highly unlikely it’s overvalued by almost 100k and they clearly are in no rush.

If your sister could replicate it elsewhere she wouldn’t be focused on this house. You’re fixated on this house as you actually hope to pick up a bargain. There’s probably a deal to be done but that price reduction sounds far fetched. If they were open to reducing I imagine the estate agent would have already convinced them. Your price drop is so extreme that it’s unlikely you will be taken seriously.

without knowing the area it’s impossible to say whether that’s a reasonable or CF offer. Given the rest of the background though it sounds like it’s a very unrealistic seller and a low offer may well piss them off. Has your sister got children? Given the length of time they’ve been in there I’d be tempted to do with a letter to vendors around how much they’d love it as a house to raise a family, can see that’s it’s history, but given it needs work and raising young children this is the most they can offer and would they be willing to consider. You never know, might work

Honestly this is all,a bit bonkers, who are you to make the sellers understand anything, it’s not your house and your sister isn’t entitled to it.

and no it’s not a decent offer. Not even close. However she should make her offer and if it’s a no walk away. The rest is nonswnse

have you never bought before? Thr nonsense of wanting the sellers to understand they will never sell it is simply not something anyone with a clue of this process would say. You put your offer to the agent. They won’t be up for you telling them you know better.

Op, is she viewing homes she can’t come close to affording, is 640 close to her max?

Thanks but I dont think it is extreme after much thought now. It’s basically been on the market for two years. Two estate agents. Only one reduction. I think prev viewers thought the same, they are unreasonable sellers, but we will offer what we believe it is worth and hopefully it’ll help another buyer because we are saying its not worth the 725k. The market has changed. Like all buyers we want a fairly priced house. If you want to call that a bargain. Please dont make assumptions about my sister and the hard work she goes into providing for her family. The seller wants best for him, my sister wants best for her family. Please dont take posts about making offers so personally as your post isnt very kind. It is actually rude.

Are you buying with her? You keep writing we will,offer?

We've edited your thread title now, OP, as per your request. Hope that helps and best of luck with it all!

I'm in a similar position to the venders in that my kids have mainly flown the nest and I'm considering downsizing. If they're like me, then they won't be desperate to sell. I wouldn't take a low offer on my house - I'd just stay put unless the figures worked for me.

Obviously, your sister should only offer what she's prepared to pay, but I wouldn't expect much enthusiasm from the sellers to be honest. And a leaky outbuilding is nothing, I'd just cut off the electricity supply if I didn't want to repair the roof. Might not be worth saving anyway if it's only an outbuilding.

Probably about 5% of your reasoning will make it to the vendor - estate agent will pass on the offer and discuss with vendor, but not deliver a briefing sheet. I'd be surprised if they accept such a low offer because much of what you set out will have always been evident and will have been taken into consideration when deciding the asking price. HOWEVER, noone on here actually knows what the vendors will think, the only way to find out how they'll react to the offer is to make the offer. There's nothing to lose, if they say no, then you can walk away or negotiate up.

Sounds like they're not motivated enough to sell if it's been on for 2 years.
I would do what others have said, put in your offer, it's all good experience, then move on. I think it's best not to get too hung up about over a particular house personally. It then becomes very emotional and disappointing and can lead to overpaying. I'd recommend having 3 or 4 potentials in the pipeline and then you'll get a good feel for the market.

So it needs painting and probably carpets throughout (10k)
Needs a new boiler eventually, not yet (5k)
Needs the shed roof repaired (1k)

None of these justify a 85k under offer.

I also don’t think they will accept. If they wanted to sell for that, they’d put it on closer to that. It’s a huge difference. Fortunately the agent is between the op and the sellers, as I think she is going to cause significant offence with her desire to make them understand they will never sell it.

as said, I suspect this is thr ops first rodeo.

wow the amount of Mumsnetters in here who are clearly sellers not selling their own houses. I’m sorry not sorry my thread opened up some wounds.

thanks to those who gave good advice. Noted and we know what we will be doing moving forward.

to everyone else. It’s just a house. Not your soul. i wont be responding to this thread anymore. Some people on here are just online bullies and it’s quite pathetic.

I think from 725k to 640k is a steep drop. That is an 85k reduction. You could ask the EA if the vendor is considering to reduce - given that they are elderly and want to move closer to their son shows an indication that they are keen to sell. I would think a reasonable offer to start with would be £680k.
What have other properties nearby sold for? Could it be that the property has been priced to sell already?
It sounds like the vendors are not desperate to sell and will only get what they want…

They're not serious sellers if they've been mucking about since 2021 when the property market was hot.

OP, I think you are jumping to lots of conclusions and your defensiveness and immature reaction suggests you are indeed new to this. Assuming that if we don’t agree with you that we must be “wounded sellers” is risible. I sold my house recently (fingers crossed, about to exchange) within a month and had several offers in that time. Like many others posting on this thread I’m sure, I’ve bought and sold many properties over the years.

You don’t appreciate it, that is clear, but you’ve actually had some very good advice on this thread.

The thing is @offeringneedadvice you started this thread asking for advice and people gave you their honest opinions & advice.

Then you got upset with them because you didn’t like the advice. Presumably it was not what you wanted to hear. But even if the house is only worth 640k that STILL doesn’t mean the sellers would accept 640k. All the signs suggest they are not open to significantly reducing the price of their house at the moment. Being stubborn about that is their prerogative & itemising all the property defects is very unlikely to change their attitude.

Nothing to stop you offering 640k though. Maybe you’re right & we’re all wrong.

Worth a try they can only decline it

I'm not sure why you posted. You asked if it was a reasonable offer, people with experience of the London property market are saying no (it's the land that holds the value) and you don't want to take that on board. So unless you just wanted a thread of people agreeing with you I'm not sure of the purpose of your post.
I agree that even if bathrooms, kitchen need replacing it's not an £85k reduction , it's will already have been priced as a renovation. The shed is really irrelevant, lots of properties don't come with one, so it's just a bonus. You'd either tear it down or repair it.

Other matched properties are going for £25k more. Just add up what you would have to do to get the finish up to the same level and take that away from £750k.

Condition is taken into account when valuing.

@MrsSkylerWhite it should be a consideration for buyers and a little influential but it isn’t a massive factor as long as it isn’t so poor the property is not valid security for a mortgage. Square footage and location are the drivers. The condition of the garden shed has 0 affect on value unless contaminated

There seem to be a lot of chippy sellers on here!

Your sister's offer sounds fair enough, but the thing is that the sellers are obviously in no rush to sell and don't seem bothered if it sells at all (I expect their agent is fed up with them!). So I think the offer is unlikely to be accepted, unfortunately. Unless they've suddenly seen the light about their house.

Your sister could just make the offer and leave it on the table. Is she interested in any other houses?

If the valuation was accurate and the condition has been taken into account, this property, in a usually desirable part of SE London, would have been snapped up in the red hot sellers market of 2021. It would not have needed to be re-marketed in the falling market of 2023-24. There are lots of reductions all over Rightmove but one category which has become much less desirable in particular are these sort of properties which have not be maintained, let alone updated. Costs have doubled since 2020/21 and buyers are not able/willing to pay only a little less than the done up houses. Their value has therefore fallen.
If the value was even fairly near current market value, they would have had offers in '21 and the last 8 months. Sellers who market at realistic figures for their type of house/ area are still getting offers even now, when values are falling in most areas.

@offeringneedadvice what are the houses on for that are in a move in condition, not with all the renovations your sister wants to do? That would give a good idea if the vendors have already taken that into account with regards to the price.