To offer lower or no?

[MotherOfRatios]

Viewed a 1 bed first floor property £200k Woolwich I like the area, however there was no pictures of the bathroom.

I viewed and the bathroom needs some
work it's just gone on the market I want to offer lower but my gut says they'll say no.

There's a whole in the bath and bath panel (the inside one is blurred so haven't uploaded)

WYD?

I think the estate agent has seen you coming. All the usual tactics are being deployed; 'lots of interest' may mean a couple of phone calls but no viewings (other than you), the seller will 'sleep on it', is to make you panic and offer more.
Listen to the facts. The price was dropped quite significantly, meaning it wasn't selling. It also means they need to sell and aren't prepared to wait for the market to pick up.
It needs work, so money (and don't forget, time) spent on it.
Another nearby pristine condition flat sold for £205k recently, so this one isn't worth that.
You're a first-time buyer, so there's no chain, and you hold all the cards.
Like others have said, the estate agent is not offering you advice. She's trying to get as much money out of you as she can for the seller.
They need you more than you need them. Do you really want to pay over the odds for something that doesn't perfectly fit your requirements? There will be other flats that are in better condition on the market soon. Reject their 'offer' of £205k saying you've 'slept on it' and don't think it's worth that given the facts above.
Keep looking while you wait for them to come back to you with a lower, more suitable price (they will). Then negotiate hard.

I definitely agree and yes, they gave me something that headspace to go £205k is it None of my family have bought before? I'm literally the first to go to university the first to get a good job job the first to be buying so this is completely new terrain.

but I'm sticking some and I'm not going to fall for that her tricks I'll wait and see what she calls back with today if I haven't heard by 12 I'll give them a ring

Well done for getting this far - house buying, especially in London, is awful.

If I were you I would go back with an offer of £195k saying you like the flat, you can move quickly as you don't have a chain and you consider your offer fair as it reflects the work needed to bring the bathroom up to modern standards.

You’ve got us on Mumsnet helping you now @MotherOfRatios

We’ve all been FTBs in the past and it’s not easy.

It's definitely hard as a first time buyer in London because an estate agent don't know anything. I've been to 10 viewings this week and only one out of 10 have known details about the property. Even basic things like not knowing what the boiler is sometimes it's hard to tell if it's a water tank or a boiler or even knowing when the property was built.

What it has confirmed to me though is I don't think I want to do shared ownership anymore the difference in mortgage rates and what I would be paying is quite stark. And I want to buy now because from studying economics I reckon interest rates are gonna go low not 1% but lower but house prices are gonna boom when interest rates start to drop so I want to get buy before interests rates drop.

However, I'm not going to pay overpriced for something. I want something that I can tweak so I can add value to, but I'm not paying over the odds for this property

Better to buy without shared ownership if you can @MotherOfRatios

Don't get me wrong you can get some good properties on there but if you buy a Resale, you have to think about the lease length on the property, you can only by 25% unless you plan to staircase and staircasing just seems so expensive.

The new builds that have been built today are tiny for flats. Sometimes I can work from home every day in a week other times in a month I can be in every day of the month there's no in between. What I'm finding with new builds is the bedroom is really small and the living room is really small and I would need a two bed which I can't afford. I ideally want to buy a build from around the late 90s-2010s.

Update
just rang to see if the seller had rang up today or not and she told me yesterday that the estate agent that I'm dealing with was in the office today and then today she tells me it's her Saturday off bit bizarre.

I said has the seller rang up to confirm anything she said no I also asked have they been any other offers put in and she said no.

Something tells me that the estate agent I'm dealing with has definitely been lying about the supposedly interest because if it was such hot property like she said it was surely someone would have put an offer in by now....

i've got two shared ownership viewings today and I've just seen another property on the market closer to the station which is £210k It is dated but I could move in and live there for a bit without needing to do significant work. Just waiting on the estate agent to confirm the lease length on the property.

Additional update
spoke to another agent and they gave me some advice after we got chatting about property, they think there's a leak on that wall and They also recommended that I buy the stuff from land registry I bought it and it's a landlord that owns the property and they are an investment company that own just stopped looking a block of flats in that block. They're listed as a freeholder but the property is been sold as leasehold.

Are you getting second thoughts about buying that flat @MotherOfRatios ?

You could wait for another one to come up in better condition. The state of that bathroom would worry me personally (though I am a bit of a wuss about stuff like that as have no diy skills whatsoever)

This tells you all you really need to know. If they can't be bothered to keep a rental property in good order, then it is highly likely the building won't be, which could cost you a lot in terms of repairs.

Big red flags here.

Oh OP I'd walk away from this one. Lots of red flags here. I wouldn't trust the EA at all and I don't like the look of that wall behind the toilet...I hope you don't make an expensive mistake here.

@MotherOfRatios Rather than the offer price, i’d start focusing on the specifics of ownership of this property and doing your research now before you start spending £’s on surveys, mortgage arrangement fees etc. It is unusual (but not unheard of) for a flat to be freehold. Mortgage companies don’t really like freehold flats either. There will also be a limit on the % of properties with a mortgage within the building if it is a sizeable block. Do you mean it has a share of the freehold? If yes, how is the maintenance of the building organised? Is there a management company involved ? Have any section 20 notices been issued? (Especially important for ex-LEA properties where major works can be hugely expensive) How much is the service charge?How much is your contribution to the buildings insurance? You will be liable for any unpaid ground rent or service charge that the vendor has not paid so I’d specifically ask the agent if both are paid up to date. Absolutely do not proceed until the vendor has settled the outstanding amounts. How much are consents from the freeholder? You are likely to need a consent for each part of the work you want to do on the property before you start work if there is a 3rd party freeholder involved. Does the building have cladding?( If yes, walk away.)

The LR will have two entries for a leasehold flat. One for the leaseholder (the vendor) and one for the freeholder (potentially the vendor but more likely a third party) you can find the details of the lease lengths there. Remember that you are very unlikely to get a mortgage on a property where the unexpired length of the lease is less than 72yrs but each lender has their own criteria.

Regarding the agent: Do not use the solicitor or conveyancer they recommend, they’re not being helpful, they earn a fee for the referral. Ditto their financial advisor. Get recommendations from the local FB page for a good solicitor (don’t skimp on this cost). You can find your own mortgage broker too.

Keep asking questions and good luck!

Their not responsible for the building thankfully

Thanks I do have a conveyor and solicitor.

I think the situation is similar to where I live now, where a dodgy deal gets cut which is wrong when building but it's happening a lot.

its been sold to me as a leasehold not freehold lease length is 110 years, the person who owns the flat is an assets type landlord they own 6 flats in the block.

Yes tad worried

This isn't making a huge amount of sense- if they own a share of the freehold (which it seems they do), they will definitely have a hand in making decisions around major works even if a management agent is in place.

It says this it is a housing association building and the housing association has good opinions in the Facebook group for the building

There's more and more here that would make me concerned. 110 yrs is also a short lease. The wall behind the toilet looks very very damp and the general state of the bathroom is not good. The lack of clarity with the vendors also odd. A landlord or an elderly woman?? I may have it all wrong but this all seems like it would be hassle to me.

Advice I've had from numerous solicitors is 110 is fine I never view anything less than 110. It's not supposed to be a long-term home for me anyway.

it's clear that the estate agents have not been honest with me so this will be interesting tomorrow when she calls and I can say to her I know it's a landlord that owns the property. but I just can't stop thinking about the old woman that lives in that flat that has had to put up with that bathroom.

I do agree that 110 years is fine and won’t be affecting the purchase price at all for a flat in London.

Just reading again through the land register docs and I don't understand what this means. Can anyone help? Because it was advertised at 110 lease years

I would clarify the lease length. Not at all clear.
also you need clarification of who the Leaseholder is and lease details eg can the ground rent increase.
also, and this is a biggy , often overlooked, who are the managing agents for the property. Investigate them. There are some absolutely terrible ones. I have had dealings with a couple over the years, DS withdrew an offer on an almost perfect flat when he discovered that a particular company was the managing agent. Joined a FB group of their victims briefly as he thought I might have been harsh.

Not sure, and you should get your solictor to check, but it look possibly as if the lessees have bought the freehold and awarded themselves 999 year leases. This is commonly known as "share of freehold". This is what the agent might mean when they say the lessee and freeholder are the same person.

It is fine and increasingly common. What usually happens is the lessees create a company that ownes the freehold and they all own a share in the company and then that company have a lease agreement with each flat owner - so you wear two hats - that of leaseholder and freeholder. The only thing you absolutely need to make sure of is that you are buying the company share along with the lease - this is usally of notional value - our block is share of freehold and new buyers oay one pound for the company share.

I would ensure your solicitor also asks about management arrangements. Some share of freehold places are self managed (eg the leaseholders informally dealing with the maientnce themselves) but that can cause issues - eg people not doing jobs, people refusing to pay or disagreeing with what needs to be done. In my view, especially for anything more than two or three flats, the better way is to emply a managing agent who sorts all of that out.

Also estate agents usually know fuck all about leases and tend to give all sorts of wrong information.

We had an issue with our block where a local agent was telling prospective buyers were "freehold" which is a. unture and b. would make them unmortgageable in England.