UPVC sash windows - insane seeming prices!

[Ilikecakes]

Planning full house refurb and extension in 2024 and trying to sort some of the big ticket items in the next few weeks. The biggest ‘thing’ to buy will be new windows throughout the house, along with four sets of French doors and three sets of bifolds. I’ve had three quotes through and would really appreciate sanity checking from some of the experienced renovation bods on here.

I know these can generate a bit of controversy on here but after MUCH research, we’ve decided on timber-look upvc sash windows for the bulk of the house. We have a really lovely, distinctive heritage property that currently has timber, single glazed sashes throughout (it’s BALTIC in the winter) and restoring, double-glazing and draught proofing them all would be prohibitively expensive and require ongoing expensive maintenance going forward - this from a timber window specialist locally. Back of the house is south facing and, as we’re near the sea, gets a lot of battering over the course of the year with extreme sunlight mixed in with extreme sea gales too. For those reasons, we’d like low maintenance upvc but obviously want to retain the look of the existing sashes as closely as possible, and have accepted basically that we’ll have to pay through the nose for it.

However, I’m still bloody shocked at the three different quotes we’ve had back!! All the quotes seem much higher than expected, but there’s one that’s significantly higher again and I’m struggling to work out if these are fair or if - ultimate first world problem - we’re getting the ‘nice road/house’ tax applied as we’ve annoyingly seemed to find since moving here a few years back.

Three quotes below are for:
27 upvc sash windows (Rose View brand - Ultimate rose collection)
4 timber French doors (across the board we’ve been advised that timber works best for the doors as the upvc frames are too thick for our door dimensions)
Three sets of aluminium bifold (2x3 pane, 1x4 pane)

Quote 1: £99100
Quote 2: £97200
Quote 3: £138000 😱😱 - come to think of it, this last one didn’t even include the French doors as he couldn’t make the timber ones!

For context, the bifolds are roughly £25k out of these figures so windows and French doors are starting at around £75k. Am I going mad that these seem insanely high?! I had an average of £1k per window in mind (none of them are particularly large), but understand that these are high end windows and knew this would creep up, but around £75k?!

I’m going to ring the manufacturers directly tomorrow and try to understand whether I can just order them directly and pay a fitter locally but maybe I’m wrong and this is just what windows like these cost these days?! Would really appreciate any guidance on whether these prices sound out of whack, or whether I’ve just been unrealistic to now?

Gosh that was long, thanks for reading 💐

Have you tried negotiating the price? on something that expensive, most suppliers will be open on price or find one that will.

I'll be honest, i think your quote at the lower end, isn't that bad & timber doors wont be cheap if custom sizes.

We know loads of people in trades and materials have shot up, as have labour rates, not all justified.

Thats seems expensive OP. Ive just had 6 UPVC timber sashes done - (approx 800x1800 mm) at £1000 per window inc fitting

Have any of the quotes said what the making good / internal finish is going to be? That price is extremely high IMO even with full timber relines, I've been in the window industry for a decade and sash are one of my specialist areas and I've delivered dozens of large projects no where near that price - I used to work for Quickslide who are one of the leading manufacturers of PVC sash. If you want I'd be happy to take a look at your quotes, just let me know 😊

The prices I quoted included fitting and making good.
The only thing they didn't do was paint the new wooden boxing inside the bay and deeper windows.
I thought it would mean redecoration throughout but in fact you wouldn't know they had been here.

Cost of materials across the industry have gone through the roof in the last couple of years. Interest rates, inflation, labour costs (thanks to Brexit) etc all adds up on a big project like this.

I have a relative in the trade - he thinks your quotes are very expensive, and said they're usually willing to negotiate down by up to 40%. If you um and ah long enough, they'll start incentivising for you.

Ah wow @McGintyii i may take you up on that, thank you!

No you don't, my parent's Edwardian house has sash windows and they needed slight TLC from a local builder who did an amazing job and it was a couple of hundred per window. They'd been good for more than 25 years before that.

@calishire what wood did they use for your windows?

@GoldenTea they used acoyya

It's £900 per window here and we're in Greater London.

So an update: after the guilt-tripping on here (lighthearted, don’t flame me!!), I’ve had full quotes for restoring the current windows, as well as replacing with new hardwood windows throughout.

Full restoration throughout: approx £3500 per window = c. £94k plus VAT

This would also mean keeping the fat glazing bars where we have them which a) we don’t like and b) are inconsistent around the house where previous owners have replaced one or two original windows with alternatives.

Replace with hardwood: £120k plus VAT.

Tis a no brainer and makes me far more comfortable with my original quotes, which also includes bifolds or sliders (with slight variation depending on which), and French doors where needed.

Thanks for the input everyone, Ultimate Rose it is.

To reply to PP who commented about windows not equalling heat: we’re also doing cavity wall insulation, underfloor heating etc too. Currently 🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶 in our lovely house!

Op- I still think you are making a mistake with uPVC but at least you considered it.

One point though - in and old house, I'd be surprised at cavity walls? They came much later.

Please be really careful with any kind of modern insulation, modern plasters etc. Old houses need to breathe. You could easily cause a huge damp issue.

I'll get back in my box now....

No worries, you can think it’s a mistake but we have to live here 🤷🏻‍♀️

Cavity wall hasn’t been confirmed yet but builder says it’s likely - house built in 1920s (although looks older). Currently riddled with damp, windows covered in condensation etc, getting expert advice on how to fix it.

1920's, some houses did have cavity walls then, but it is early.

I'd be very wary about cavity wall insulation though - it really can make things worse. Have a look at some of the historic house forums and get a specialist surveyor for historic properties (not just a damp proof contractor).

Condensation won't just magically go away with new windows and cavity walls- it's important to understand the cause of damp and address the moisture levels.

Im in the same boat as you op. The price of windows has risen massively…..

3 years ago this window was £1100. We need another now ( extension) and the same window slightly smaller is £2100. 🙀. I expected maybe a 50% increase but didnt expect that.

They are made by a company called evolution and only have one local installer to us so not much scope to shop around 🤨

They are excellent windows and you cant hear a thing through them but £1000 more for exactly the same thing is hard to swallow. Good job we dont need 27 of them 🙂. I cant believe its the 21st century and people are still living with single glazed windows.🥶

Our house (70’s) has retro fitted cavity insulation (60mm) not sure how much difference it makes to the warmth of the house as it was done before we bought the house … but have not had any issues. Its the older white foam stuff not the beads they use now.

Very informative thread, thank you OP and everyone that responded. Blimey, I had no idea about the trickle vents! We are in a very similar situation to the OP even though at a slightly smaller scale.

We had an initial visit by two tradesmen today that represent two different companies. We saw the Ultimate Rose at a showroom and thought that it's an excellent substitute for original rotten sash windows, so we're getting a quote for those.

The other tradesman uses Quickslide, does anyone have experience with that company? https://www.quickslide.co.uk/ They have just released a slim midrail sash window and we were told that they are much cheaper than Ultimate Rose that didn't have much competition for years. I haven't seen Quickslide sashes in the flesh yet but they seem to be ticking all the right boxes. I can report back when I know more.

Also, @Ilikecakes you missed the trick there. If you had asked a penny for every time someone told you not to go for your chosen windows, then boom - you would have bumped up your budget! 😜

Peace ✌

The thread went like this:

Me: I’d like to sanity check some upvc window prices please. If I had unlimited time and money I’d go for timber of course, but I’ve had quotes and they’re out of budget, both for initial outlay and maintenance. Do these upvc prices seem reasonable?

Naysayers of MN: timber always. Much cheaper than upvc, no maintenance required if you take care of them literally the definition of fucking maintenance and soooooo much better for every snobby reason.

Me: OK, well if you really think they’re cheaper and better, maybe I’ll get a quote after all.

Weeks pass (including a little tangent about trickle vents)

Me: Yep, timber quote was outrageous and utterly unaffordable, just as I’d said in the beginning, both for new and refurbed windows. Upvc it is, very happy with price and decision.

Naysayers of MN: but wooooood!

Lighthearted so please don’t come shouting at me, having a fucking horrid couple of weeks and this gave me a little chuckle, so thanks @Yulisees

That’s also not to ignore the lovely help from many posters who did as I asked, sanity checking the price and giving their feedback. But yes, v funny about the pennies, might’ve been able to afford the timber had I done that! We actually paid our deposit for the roseview this week, would say I’d post a picture when they’re in but I’m sure I’ll get lots of ‘You can tell immediately that they’re plastic’ 😀😀

Your bank manager can’t tell they’re not real wood either!

Pretty much how all threads go on MN, tbf.

Enjoy your more comfortable bank balance, OP.

I paid £800 a window for upvc slider (sash effect) windows last year. They are pretty good, look reasonably authentic from the outside, are warm and quiet - but aren’t perfect. Black edges rather than silver etc. Chunkier than timber and you can see they are sliders rather than real sashes from the inside. They were to replace terrible ill-fitting inherited 80s metal casements in a Victorian house we recently bought. If the house had the original timber sashes I would def have refurbed and added secondary glazing rather than rip them out to replace with plastic.

@Ilikecakes Really sorry to hear you've had a bad couple of weeks, so even more glad my post made you chuckle! I read the thread top to bottom, edge on the seat, being amused but also sharing your frustration all the way. 🙄Should have had some pop-corn really... Congrats on going for Roseview! They look great, I've only read good things. Did you go for Ultimate or Heritage in the end? 🌷

@AnitaLoos Not all UPVC windows are the same. Ultimate Rose by Roseview in particular are premium, look amazing and they come with a price tag. They cost at least twice as much of what you paid for yours (guesstimate as I'm still waiting for our quote). As the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

@Ilikecakes One more question, are you going for the trickle vents in the end? The suspense is killing me 😋

@Yulisees no trickle vents. Aware that this is Breaking The Law and also likely to make my house dissolve into a damp puddle in 12 seconds flat. Or I’ll just open the windows and let air in that way……

Edited to add - went for the Ultimate. Currently looking at hardware choices and am pretty underwhelmed. Such an odd thing that the manufacturer has gone to serious effort to make the windows look premium and then have a choice of ugly polished hardware. Roseview if you’re reading, please bring out a matt option!

@Yulisees if I had the budget to spend twice as much on our windows I could and would have ordered hand-made timber windows made by a local (London) company. I’m hardly in a position to lecture anyone else on the appearance & eco impact of plastic windows as I have them myself but with a bigger budget I would certainly have gone for a small, craftsman company and wood.

But woooooood!

😂🤯