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Original poster

UPVC sash windows - insane seeming prices!

127 replies

Ilikecakes · 17/12/2023 09:56

Planning full house refurb and extension in 2024 and trying to sort some of the big ticket items in the next few weeks. The biggest ‘thing’ to buy will be new windows throughout the house, along with four sets of French doors and three sets of bifolds. I’ve had three quotes through and would really appreciate sanity checking from some of the experienced renovation bods on here.

I know these can generate a bit of controversy on here but after MUCH research, we’ve decided on timber-look upvc sash windows for the bulk of the house. We have a really lovely, distinctive heritage property that currently has timber, single glazed sashes throughout (it’s BALTIC in the winter) and restoring, double-glazing and draught proofing them all would be prohibitively expensive and require ongoing expensive maintenance going forward - this from a timber window specialist locally. Back of the house is south facing and, as we’re near the sea, gets a lot of battering over the course of the year with extreme sunlight mixed in with extreme sea gales too. For those reasons, we’d like low maintenance upvc but obviously want to retain the look of the existing sashes as closely as possible, and have accepted basically that we’ll have to pay through the nose for it.

However, I’m still bloody shocked at the three different quotes we’ve had back!! All the quotes seem much higher than expected, but there’s one that’s significantly higher again and I’m struggling to work out if these are fair or if - ultimate first world problem - we’re getting the ‘nice road/house’ tax applied as we’ve annoyingly seemed to find since moving here a few years back.

Three quotes below are for:
27 upvc sash windows (Rose View brand - Ultimate rose collection)
4 timber French doors (across the board we’ve been advised that timber works best for the doors as the upvc frames are too thick for our door dimensions)
Three sets of aluminium bifold (2x3 pane, 1x4 pane)

Quote 1: £99100
Quote 2: £97200
Quote 3: £138000 😱😱 - come to think of it, this last one didn’t even include the French doors as he couldn’t make the timber ones!

For context, the bifolds are roughly £25k out of these figures so windows and French doors are starting at around £75k. Am I going mad that these seem insanely high?! I had an average of £1k per window in mind (none of them are particularly large), but understand that these are high end windows and knew this would creep up, but around £75k?!

I’m going to ring the manufacturers directly tomorrow and try to understand whether I can just order them directly and pay a fitter locally but maybe I’m wrong and this is just what windows like these cost these days?! Would really appreciate any guidance on whether these prices sound out of whack, or whether I’ve just been unrealistic to now?

Gosh that was long, thanks for reading 💐

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
KnackeredBack · 18/12/2023 10:46

We had quotes for 2 bay windows (really tall/wide) plus 3 other windows about 5 yrs ago. The UPVC was £25k, the soft wood (guaranteed for 10 yrs only) was £22k and the refurbishment of the original hardwood, with double glazed units was £18k. Went for the 3rd option and not regretted.^^

FranticallyFrank · 18/12/2023 10:51

I had UPVC sashes installed about 8 years ago and the cost was £1k per window then so I think your quote is probably not far off given the huge inflation in building costs since then.

Original poster
Ilikecakes · 18/12/2023 10:52

@FranticallyFrank how are they? Have they held up well? Thanks for responding…..

OP posts:
FranticallyFrank · 18/12/2023 10:55

Ilikecakes · 18/12/2023 10:52

@FranticallyFrank how are they? Have they held up well? Thanks for responding…..

Yes they’re great. No issues. Easy to clean as can reach both sides. We replaced early UPVC which had a lot of plastic on the inside of the house. The new ones were fitted with wooden trim on the inside so look a million times better.

Original poster
Ilikecakes · 18/12/2023 10:59

@FranticallyFrank thank you.

OP posts:
Mummyme87 · 18/12/2023 11:01

South London, 7yr ago we paid £7k for 7 upvc sash windows, so £1k a window.

foreverbasil · 18/12/2023 11:10

Slightly off topic but my friend had beautiful sash windows put in her period property. Although they look lovely and are double glazed and good quality they still let in a howling draught . They did cut down on traffic noise though. Is it just always the case that sash windows = poor insulation or something else?

Original poster
Ilikecakes · 18/12/2023 11:50

@foreverbasil from all the research I’ve been doing, I don’t think it’s the case that sash windows automatically equal draughts, but poorly maintained wooden ones can get draughty easily due to the expansion/contraction of the wood around the window panes themselves. Hence my veering heavily towards upvc ones, to avoid that costly, time consuming regular maintenance. Plus that bloody flaking paint (actual picture below)

UPVC sash windows - insane seeming prices!
OP posts:
Vitriolinsanity · 18/12/2023 12:54

I can't attach photos but I promise you OP mine are equally bad. The one I've had refurbished looks like a new unit. I've booked to have two more done in the NY. Three windows will be £2.5k.

If you happen to be in the South East, they're called Kent Sash.

LemonFanta1 · 18/12/2023 14:15

@Ilikecakes I'm attaching the before and after pics of one of the windows, with the middle of the range replacement. Both sash halves open just like a wooden one, both halves can be fully removed and replaced. The brochure illustrates the differences between them but to be honest, I have no regrets (and I've agonized over which range to choose for a long time). From memory, the price difference was around £600/window - summer 2023.

Also, I have friends that have the roseview without the trickle vents, the only difference is that they ordered straight from roseview, I went via a certified installer.

UPVC sash windows - insane seeming prices!
UPVC sash windows - insane seeming prices!
Original poster
Ilikecakes · 18/12/2023 16:51

Lovely @LemonFanta1, even with trickle vents 😜

Thank you for replying.

OP posts:
SquishyGloopyBum · 18/12/2023 22:06

Ilikecakes · 18/12/2023 10:36

Oh gosh, I really don’t mean this rudely but the head tilting ‘I think it’s very sad’ type comments about wood vs upvc are quite infuriating, and not the point of the thread. I have already said that in an ideal world I’d love to either restore or replace with wood but the ongoing maintenance cost is really daunting. It’s pretty arrogant to just assume that everyone can suck up the thousands it costs to get that many wooden windows sanded/painted/whatever every few years. I’m not pleading poverty for a second, but we managed to pull a deposit together to buy our house, we’ve now scrimped like mad, working jobs we really don’t like, in order to pull a sum together to refurb it and the hope now is that once the big work is done, the house will need minimal ‘big’ maintenance going forward and we can actually plan to go on holiday or help the kids with driving lessons in the future, rather than earmark £Xk every few years to get windows sorted!

I did actually speak again with a local sash restorer this morning who remembered our conversation 12ish months ago, and who’s going to visit us in the new year for a full survey but even on the phone, he said we’d be looking at £60k+ to restore (or replace the most rotten ones). I’ll see what the final quote looks like after his visit but we want the house warm, dry, draught-free and more liveable than it is now. I’m also concerned about several comments I’ve read here and on builders’ forums etc about the quality of wood used for new windows these days and how many have spent a fortune on wood only to have to replace them 10 years down the line…..not exactly environmentally sound either.

Thanks for all the helpful advice both about this and about tricky vents! I can’t bore friends with this chat in real life, so great to get the lowdown on here 😂

I know you don't like posted commenting on the principle of uPVC OP but, you clearly have worked hard to get the house. Have you factored in the fact that ripping out the historic windows will devalue it?

I'm glad you are getting a joiner in again at least. I agree about modern wood not being the same- which is why if you can, sticking to what you have and repairing is the best thing.

You say a lot about future maintenance. Ours need painting every 7-8 years. It's not a huge deal to be honest. And doesn't cost thousands. Plus we get to change colour every time which is great.

3smallpups · 18/12/2023 22:33

We have just had ours done
After much thought , having replaced timber sash windows 25 years ago and them needing to be done again . Was very anti but they actually look lovely .
We went for a fairly premium make , white timber look on inside and pale sage green outside.
Cost approx £3k per bay window
£950 per sash
Plus scaffolding costs

McGintyii · 18/12/2023 22:42

I work in the window industry and that sounds extortionate OP - where are you based?

Cloudyz7 · 18/12/2023 23:12

I have 7 Ultimate Rose Sash on order. I'm in SW. London and paying £1,800 per window.

I'm in a Victorian property and I also struggled with the UPVC vs Wood decision but went with head over heart in the end!

My supplier sent me a list of properties near me who they had fitted the Ultimate Rose and the cheaper version and from the outside, there's not a huge difference. However, when looking at the two side by side in the showroom I think the interior side of the Ultimate Rose looked better.

TomeTome · 18/12/2023 23:18

I think you can get a MUCH better price than that, buy direct from a trade supplier.

unlikelychump · 19/12/2023 06:51

It sounds hugely expensive to me too. Is your guilt letting you accept being ripped off?

They are only windows, really.

calishire · 19/12/2023 07:08

Sorry I haven't read through your whole thread but just came on to say that I had, heritage double glazing wooden windows supplied and installed by Bradford Woodworkers last year. Most of which where 6 pane. All sash. The cost varied per window but worked out at about £1500 per window including VAT. This was for a second home. I've just been looking at replacing some of the UPVC double glazing in our own home and was surprised that the cost for upvc sash was similar to the handmade wooden sash windows I'd had installed last year. I'd recommend maybe getting in touch to see if they will supply fit for a big job further afield? Also, BJM Windows in Bradford quoted me very similar but for single glazing and they couldn't do the planning permission for me so Bradford woodworkers had the edge. I had 3 other quotes for wooden windows (upvc wasn't an option as grade 2 listed) and they were all a lot more money. Some coming in at £5k per window 😱 I mean I thought it was ridiculous but I can't believe the value I got considering the price of the UPVC!

GPTec1 · 19/12/2023 07:18

@Ilikecakes A friend of ours recently ordered 11 sash windows various sizes, 1 front door and a french patio door, all wood effect.
He paid £12k, trade price & long term relationship with supplier, no fitting.

But you want 27, so back of a fag packet.... thats 28 to 30k plus scaffold (sash upvc are very heavy) plus fitting and disposal of old windows, oh and make good inside, redecorate around windows/doors.

Add 10 to 15k for a retail price, 99k doesn't seem out of this world, unless its windows only, in which case they are ripping you off.

DaveWatts · 19/12/2023 07:30

We had a load of windows done last year - paid about 7k for the lot (three sets of uPVC sliding sashes and two other ones). They were cheap as we got them direct from the factory, fitting was done by our builder as part of some other works so not sure how much that would have added on.

Motheranddaughter · 19/12/2023 07:32

We had to use timber as in a conservation area

Original poster
Ilikecakes · 19/12/2023 08:20

@SquishyGloopyBum thank you. Will see what the joiner says but the issue with fat window bars still stands - unless they can replace those too?!

As regards the maintenance, I do have a question. You say a repaint 7-8 years but I imagine the finish all starts to degrade at different paces depending on weather exposure, which room each window’s in, usage etc. Is that the case? Ie would my south facing, sun/wind battered windows in busy kids’ bedrooms start to look tatty a couple of years before the north facing, barely-used-spare-room for example?

Not too worried about the value of the house to be honest. Firstly we’re planning on staying forever and secondly it’s a pretty distinctive and well known property in the area, so will always have people queuing up to buy it when the time comes. I don’t imagine anyone would be put off by heritage-look windows that ensure the place is warm but even if they were, they could rip them out and replace with wood. Only a small amount to pay when set against the overall costs of the place. There were plenty of other horrors in the house when we bought it that didn’t put us off for a second…..

OP posts:
Original poster
Ilikecakes · 19/12/2023 08:23

@GPTec1 thank you. No that price is for windows, timber French doors and bifolds (or potentially sliders which would shift it by a couple of grand either way). Includes fitting but I need to check on whether there’s a scaffold charge as we’ll have that up for the regular build work anyway. Maybe the price is fine?

That said, @McGintyii and @unlikelychump‘s comments are making me doubt myself all over again!! We’re in expensive part of south-east (not London).

OP posts:
SquishyGloopyBum · 19/12/2023 08:43

Ilikecakes · 19/12/2023 08:20

@SquishyGloopyBum thank you. Will see what the joiner says but the issue with fat window bars still stands - unless they can replace those too?!

As regards the maintenance, I do have a question. You say a repaint 7-8 years but I imagine the finish all starts to degrade at different paces depending on weather exposure, which room each window’s in, usage etc. Is that the case? Ie would my south facing, sun/wind battered windows in busy kids’ bedrooms start to look tatty a couple of years before the north facing, barely-used-spare-room for example?

Not too worried about the value of the house to be honest. Firstly we’re planning on staying forever and secondly it’s a pretty distinctive and well known property in the area, so will always have people queuing up to buy it when the time comes. I don’t imagine anyone would be put off by heritage-look windows that ensure the place is warm but even if they were, they could rip them out and replace with wood. Only a small amount to pay when set against the overall costs of the place. There were plenty of other horrors in the house when we bought it that didn’t put us off for a second…..

Edited

Glazing bars- the thickness usually indicates how old the windows are. I'm guessing yours could be early Georgian if they are thick? To me, it's another particular historic feature I'd keep and love with as it's part of the character of the house.

Painting: our front windows are fully south. They do start going first but they don't look shabby etc for years before they are due to get painted again. plus you don't have to paint them all at the same time if there are others which really don't need repainting and have lasted well, which could make it cheaper maintenance wise.

You say about people buying a warm house. Just wanted to say that double glazing won't instantly make a huge difference in an older house in terms of heat retention, if that's your aim in replacing them. It will help of course, but it's not suddenly going to become super warm and cozy. Historic England have good advice on how to make thermal upgrades to period properties without losing character and creating other issues (such as damp).

It sounds a wonderful house if you have people queuing up for it. It's true, some people won't be put off by plastic, but many others will. There is an irony in you saying that they can rip out the upvc and put sash back in. I'd be reflecting that in the price if I had to do that. Plus they won't be nearly the same as the originals, just a facsimile. Given the backlash on this thread (upvc windows are really like marmite) you could also get some backlash locally too. People have strong views.

historicengland.org.uk/advice/technical-advice/retrofit-and-energy-efficiency-in-historic-buildings/

historicengland.org.uk/advice/technical-advice/retrofit-and-energy-efficiency-in-historic-buildings/modifying-historic-windows-as-part-of-retrofitting-energy-saving-measures/