If you use a wood burning stove - what would change your mind?

[letmeeatinpeace]

I live in a densely populated area in London, and the smoke from wood burners seems to be getting worse each year (it's coming into our home).

I'm intrigued to hear from people who use wood burners whether there's anything that would possibly change your mind to stop using them?

I would really love to persuade our smoke-producing neighbours to be more considerate and switch them off, or at least switch to something smokeless, so any tips on how to go about it in a positive way would be much appreciated.

I don't actually know which property it's coming from - it's probably several.

Would dropping leaflets with useful info about smokeless fuel, and proper stove usage be appreciated..? I'm pretty desperate..! (I'm borderline asthmatic, and really worry about my dc's exposure)

Also, is smokeless fuel genuinely smokeless?

(I will also go down the route of contacting my council, if needed, but I just don't imagine they'd do much specially as we don't know where it's coming from)

Very good question!

I suspect its a typo and the poster meant £10 a day

Smokeless isn't actually smokeless. It smells 10 times worse if not more than wood burning. Wood is far more sustainable smells nicer when it's dried properly. Although I appreciate that it's not very nice when there's lots of people doing it in a small area. Norway is like that and it was intolerable at night.

I'll stop using mine when other people stop driving fossil fuel cars, using fossil fuel heating, flying for the holidays, buying massive quantities of brand new plastic tat for their kids etc etc. I haven't flown for over 4 years and very rarely buy new clothes/toys because of the environmental impact, but I do use a stove. My DH is a nerd though and has read up, so we are burning a renewable fuel as cleanly as possible.

There's an article in the guardian today about burning fossil fuels killing five million people. No-one is innocent in all this.

And no, I wouldn't "appreciate" an educational leaflet or mail drop. It would mainly make me think you are patronising and interfering, and I'd stick it straight in the bin while rolling my eyes at your hypocrisy.

Where in London do you live that wood burner smoke is routinely coming into your home?

I live in an area of London where "fashion" wood burners might be expected and have never noticed it. I have colleagues from all over London who similarly never experienced this phenomenon regularly raised on MN where MNers are struggling to find their houses due to wood burner smog. Most of London requires smokeless fuels and seasoned wood, some areas don't even allow garden bonfires so if people do use anything else the answer is enforcement. It shouldn't be difficult to identify the houses responsible for the level of pollution you describe.

As for "rich" London - the average income is about 35K, out of which people have to pay all the regional costs. The overwhelming majority of people use the heating source they can best afford and which is actually available.

If you want to make an actual difference be prepared to pay more taxes to subsidise the retrofit of huge areas of housing stock designed and built to use chimney based heating. The cost is out of range for most earners.

Yes, I live in London so lots of people around me. I walk my DCs to school most days, trying to be healthy and environmentally conscious, and we get to breathe in a fug of noticeably dirty air. The traffic is absolutely heaving and ULEZ has made no visible difference to that. Many of my immediate neighbours have one or more SUVs so I’d have to assume that air quality isn’t that high on the agenda for a lot of them. As far as I’m aware, road pollution is a far, far higher cause of air pollution where I live than woodburner usage.

As someone said above, people use wood burners because they are incredibly cosy and can be much cheaper to run than central heating. I think a lot of those people will know that they’re not great for their environment but that won’t override their enjoyment of using them. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve lit my own wood burner in the last year but that’s largely because I’m shit at lighting fires. My attached neighbour uses one and I can smell it but it doesn’t bother me.

By the way I don’t believe it’s about necessarily respecting other people’s choices which you strongly disagree with. I just meant that life is less frustrating if you can shrug your shoulders and not give it too much thought. Plus you will most likely do things that your neighbours don’t like but unless people are breaking the law then we largely just have to live and let live.

I had one in London. My main reason for getting it was I am secretly a bit of a prepper and wanted to have an alternative way of heating a room if the gas supply stopped. Would I have stopped using it? Probably not, it was not exactly lit all the time!

The only time I smelled my neighbour's smoke coming into my house it was because they'd installed a stove but had not lined the flue. Once they had done that the issue was sorted. Do you share a chimney stack with a neighbour? If so that's what you should check.

the only excuses for burning wood are a) poverty b). lack of access to cleaner alternatives. In cities we need to discourage all those people who are spending £££ to install wood burners in their centrally heated homes (which has been the trend over the last decade or so, these are neither of the above categories, it's been a lifestyle trend) this behaviour is increasing particulate pollution in cities whilst councils need to enforce ever stricter rules on traffic (affecting lower income families who cant afford to replace their car) in an attempt to meet pollution targets. It's the wilful ignorance from otherwise educated people that pees me off....none of us who drive, take flights, eat certain foods can deny the climate impact of our behaviour but those with woodburners seem to be in denial about the local pollution they cause. The recent ones are very "oh but i have the most eco friendly stove and only burn well-seasoned wood" ..i hate to say it but you are still producing vast quantities of PM2.5 and PM10 that are directly affecting your neighbours (and your own children if you have them). Those in poverty can't afford to upgrade their old woodburners or fireplaces and will burn whatever they can get their hands on so the very least we can do is not add to that pollution.

Wood burning stoves aren't churning out smoke or even smell into the room they are in - if they are they are not properly installed.

I wouldn't live in a city and especially London due to the horrendous traffic pollution if you paid me. I just don't understand people who make that choice just as people on this thread don't understand why we would choose to have a wood burning stove/cooker - and mostly mine are for backup during frequent power cuts (we have triple glazing/ground source/solar/are insulated up to out eyeballs but if the electricity goes off nothing works as we can't use or save the solar electricity we generate). We can't just pop out to the shop or takeaway if we have no electricity so we have to be largely self sufficient.

My friend has just thought Tesla batteries - we are thinking of doing the same but it's expensive and at our age we are unlikely to recoup the cost so will probably just soldier on with wood as a fail safe.

I live in London and have one. It’s much cheaper to have a fire and heat one room rather than the entire house (we have solar panels and my partner is obsessed with running costings). It’s also a nice direct heat source to sit in front of. I have asthma myself, the wood burner doesn’t seem to impact it, but we do run air purifiers. We try and be as responsible as possible with proper dried logs, getting the chimney swept regularly and the seal checked / the fire serviced. I can’t tell if it is on when I’m outside (coming home for example) but I can sometimes smell other people’s on walks. I honestly think your best bet is to get an air purifier and try and make your own home more insulated and sealed to it coming in in the first place. If you put a leaflet through my door I’d read it but it wouldn’t change what we do. If the air by you is thick with smoke people are burning crap and you need to tell the council. Agree this weekend looks like a good time to be able to see who the culprits are as looks like a cold one.

For those saying "why do you live in London if you're worried about air pollution?"

From the Guardian: "Research published in the last year has shown wood burning in homes is the single biggest source of small particle air pollution in the UK, producing three times more than road traffic, despite just 8% of the population using wood burners."

If you're running a wood burner in the home then you might as well be sat in the middle of a busy London junction.

@Bleepbloopbluurp
"Do you share a chimney stack with a neighbour? If so that's what you should check.”

Yes, this^

I share one of the chimneys on my roof with a neighbour. Some properties in cities will have multiple stacks, shared by multiple households.
So you can’t just tell whose got a stove lit by looking at the chimneys.

I agree also that cars, buses, lorries are the bigger cause of air pollution.

You're misunderstanding that though I'm afraid. There are various things that make up traffic pollution. The particulates in the fumes are only one part of the traffic pollution issue. The gases are far more problematic.

Our central heating is oil and costs £9 an hour to run.

Where are you getting the idea that other gases are "far more problematic"? Wood burners are the biggest source of PM2.5 which is the most dangerous form of air pollution as the tiny particles get deep into the lungs and into the bloodstream. Of all types of air pollution PM2.5 is the biggest killer.

I would still like to know, as none of the posters have directly answered this question - how do you feel that your wood burning stove is having a direct impact on your neighbours' health? Are you unaware, or just simply don't care?

Genuinely interested to know.

Leaflets will likely go straight in the fire, tbh. Very burnable and good for getting the fire started.

You could try distributing these as a fire that's not hot enough will smell. It won't fix neighbours burning bad fuel, as many Londoners won't have the storage space to store properly dried wood or dry their own. But at least the smell might go.

how do you feel that your wood burning stove is having a direct impact on your neighbours' health? Are you unaware, or just simply don't care?

It's a trade off. If my neighbour chose to live in the most polluted area of the country and expose themselves to far worse every day then I can't say Id be losing much sleep over it. But for me I live far from others and I only burn seasoned wood.

How do you feel about the fact that your use of gas (fossil fuel) central heating is destroying the planet and that has a direct impact on me and my family? Are you unaware or do you just not care?

How do you feel about the fact that your car produces all sorts of crap (particulates and other emissions)? Are you unaware or do you just not care?

Do you have solar panels OP? If not then why not? Do you prefer your electricity to be largely gas generated? Are you unaware or do you just not care?

Any chance you will answer my points or do you simply not care?

I suppose I must be apathetic about my neighbours’ health. I’m not breaking the law and I’m as responsible as I can be. I would really recommend getting air purifiers if you suffer so badly inside, game changer for our allergies.

Well I don’t believe it is. No more so than living on a busy village high street with lots of traffic. My house is old. It has 6 fireplaces. They want to be glad I don’t have six real fires on the go. 😁.

Just one stove in the front room burning either kiln dried wood or smokeless fuel. My chimneys are 12ft tall from the roof and the roof is high. I’ve never smelt my stove when I’ve been outside.

Good point. Flicking a switch to turn your heating on causes pollution and health issues for people 🤷🏻‍♀️. Don’t you care about those people?

Please remember that humans have lived around smoky fires since we came down from the trees. In London today, even with traffic and your neighbours' habits, you're probably breathing in fewer PM2.5s than at any time in human history.

No, I don’t regularly spend time thinking about my neighbours’ health. Shame me for it if you like, but I think that’s pretty natural.

The school run parents who park outside my house everyday with their engines chugging don’t seem to give a shit about mine either.

We all make selfish decisions sometimes. You can’t rely on goodwill to effect wholesale societal change. I have already told you what it would take for me to retire my woodburner fully - a grant for better insulation. Now can you please answer a question for me - how much per month would you be prepared to see your taxes go up by to finance that?