AIBU or builder (quote)?

[Golaz]

So we got a builder out to quote for some of the structural changes we want to make to our house and he’s asked for £23,500 just to essentially knock down two (load bearing ) walls and install some steel beams reinforcement. We already have the structural engineer plans. AIBU or is this bonkers??? He also wants 10k to install an under the stairs toilet and sink (albeit it does involve moving some electrics).

Option 1 – internal alteration to ground floor based on supplied Structurer drawings.

• Removal of load bearing internal wall – kitchen – based on Supplied Structurer Drawings.
• Supply and install new supporting beam to new opening.
• Removal of load bearing wall – living room - based on Supplied Structurer Drawings.
• Supply and install new supporting beam to new opening.
• Make wall and ceiling good around new openings.
• To do the above including labour and materials for 19500+VAT.

Then get another quote and see if they are similarly priced. Isn't that the point of getting quotes??? To compare prices?

Ha yes I'm getting other quotes, I just wanted to call upon the wisdom/ experience of mumsnet for more information about whether this sounds in the right ballpark or completely crazy - based on other's experiences of knocking down walls/ renovations etc. It's more than half what I (thought I was conservatively) estimating based on internet research, so I was pretty crushed to received the quote. :(
Will see what the next people say..

It’s pretty normal nowerdays. Only do renovations for better living standards. Expect to lose money on any renovations for foreseeable future.

Renovation costs are skyrocketing. We have had some necessary repairs and the bills were eye-wateringly high. We have had quotes for some projects that we originally thought of when we moved in 15 years ago and we thought we were finally in a position to proceed. The costs were insanely higher than the estimates from before. One project that we expected would be about 10k was getting quoted at 60k. It was particularly lumber intensive which is why, but that just won’t be happening.

I would advise you also add in a contingency, and gather a few more quotes.
DP works in this industry, some people's expectations are way off.

Can't comment on the first stuff but the under stairs toilet sounds insane to me. A friend just had a small bathroom done for 7.5k.

I paid a lot for some structural work and moving the kitchen, way more than I thought. I was hoping for around 20K all in, cost more than 30K. Old house, problems uncovered once work started. I still think I got ripped off by at least 5K. But this was straight after covid and just getting a builder was impossible!
A friend paid 12K to have a shower room put into the internal garage. Another friend’s new bathroom was almost 15K. This was just a like for like replacement. Prices are very expensive for building work.

Steel beams for 2 load bearing walls that quote seems reasonable to me.

Speak to the structural engineer who drew up the plans and ask them how much they think it is likely to cost.

Had a load bearing wall removed about 5 years ago before the insane leap in prices and it cost over £10k so that doesn’t seem too bad

Sounds about right to me too

Definitely get more quotes, try to get recommendations through word of mouth and try to find a builder who isn't VAT registered as they come under the threshold. Mine wasn't VAT registered, you can earn £85k before you have to register.

The way my builder was able to do this is I personally paid all the subcontractors myself, paid the builder's merchants for supplies, he would put the order in, pass the phone to me, I'd pay by credit card. His initial quote included everything so we knew what the final figure would be. He would work the week, invoice me just after Friday lunch, I would transfer the money directly into his bank account. He had a daily rate and his helpers had daily rates, so all transparent and easy to see how much everything cost. When the windows and doors were fitted, the fitters gave me an invoice, I paid it, plasterer, I paid him directly, same with roofing chap. Added up it did come to the cost of the original quote.

He has retired from building after doing it for 25 years but it is a brilliant way to do it if you can. Start looking online for the cost of things (steels, cloakroom supplies) and ask if you can supply and the builder just does the labour and what is the cost for his labour.

Wow really!? Why does the internet say this then? https://www.checkatrade.com/blog/cost-guides/cost-remove-load-bearing-wall/

😢😢. Yes we are doing this for ourselves. We just bought the house to live in, so it’s not about resell value, but we still need to be able to afford it 😭

The cost of steel has gone up significantly in the last 4 years. As well as the cost of labour. An extension that would have cost 60k in 2019 is now double. Sounds about right to me.

The bathroom cost sounds crazy high though.

Builders are busy.

The COL crisis has yet to hit the building trades as they finish projects.

People will run out of money and put off works.

Prices will drop.

Thank you this is helpful. The problem is both me and my partner are quite clueless. I think I will wait for some more quotes , but also ask for an itemised breakdown and whether we could purchase the materials separately. I know steal has gone up, but hard to believe it’s enough to justify 20k 🥴

Probably a weeks work for 2 , that is a crazy amount of money. Even if the materials/ costs were £4500. Then thats 7 and a half grand each for a steady weeks work 😳. Get more quotes.

My builder says Brexit has really impacted raw materials prices and everything is imported. He reckons 3x the cost of five years ago.

Certainly get multiple quotes as some hike prices dependant on area and whether they want to do it

Are you a member of your local Nextdoor app? Thats a good way to get good reviews of people who have used builders in your area

You can see how much steel is online , the sizes should be on your structural calculations . I got these cut, had an extra plate added to one and got the bolts ,spacers and holes drilled . I had to collect them and paint them myself. They cost £130. This was about 3 years ago. Even if the price had tripled it would only be around £400.now.

Have a look on YouTube at Gosforth Handyman he has just built his own extension after sacking his builders, I'm not saying do this yourself but look at videos of people removing load bearing walls so you understand what's involved ie moving electrics and radiator pipework, sorting out floor issues if there are any. Get knowledge, it's free.

You have the steel measurements, find them online, ring places and ask how much they are. See it as time invested in saving you money.

Loads of trades people post videos, MJ Tiff (I think) and Plumber Parts for plumbing, N Bundy and Artisan electrics for sparky stuff. It gives you ideas as to what is good workmanship, maybe what questions to ask.

Removing a load bearing wall can vary a lot depending on access, amount of wall to remove, bearings, recessed into ceiling.
What kind of making good, are you happy for the beam to be exposed and you fill in the plasterboard? And the edges of the knock through? What about building control?
Are you going to expect them to fill the gap in the floor? How about making good the skirtings and coving if any, and decoration. Also floor finish, how are you going to fill in the gap?
Any electrics or radiators etc along the wall?
How much protection of existing parts of the house are needed? Eg stained glass front door?
Moving some electrics, is that a double socket? or is it the mains cutout and consumer unit?
Also is the drainage (especially) or plumbing ready or does that need putting in?

There aren’t many builders nowadays who will be under the vat threshold unless they’re dodging tax. It’s simply too low. That’s only £300 a day ignoring all other money made eg their mark up on materials etc. Builders are generally charging at least £350 a day - other trades even more. It’s more lucrative being in the building trade than in most other trades tbh. I know a solicitor (regional firm) who is retraining as an electrician because he will make more.

I dont know any tradesman that charges £350 a day , maybe in central London but not around here. Most £200