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Tenant has changed carpet, door and curtains!!

329 replies

Member786488 · 16/11/2023 21:49

He’s leaving tomorrow as was served a s.21 in July, my daughter is moving in.

he’s just told me how much he’s ‘improved’ the flat - he’s put in a horrible cheap grey fluffy carpet over a lovely, hard wearing, (expensive) and neutral one, he’s put a couple of doors in because he ‘doesn’t like open plan’, and my (again, neutral) blinds and curtains have been replaced with dark red things.

his deposit is £860. I don’t want to have an uncomfortable conversation but I think I’m going to have to. What’s reasonable here?

I can’t believe he did all that without asking!

OP posts:
Changehappens · 17/11/2023 23:55

JoanOfAllTrades · 17/11/2023 12:11

It’s true that it becomes the tenant’s home in terms of rights to access but the tenant is not allowed to remove/add fixtures and fittings and certainly not structural changes. Plus private tenancies are different to social housing tenancies where tenants are more likely to stay for a number of years. And even in social housing, changes like adding or removing doors would require permission if you wanted to make permanent changes and it would be stipulated that the property must be returned to its original state.

Everyone including home owners are answerable to legislation eg changing windows, adding extensions, change of use etc. This begs the question is anyone actually free to do what they like with property & the answer is no. If you have a mortgage you are answerable to the lender if you can't pay the loan. If you are a tenant you are answerable to a landlord if you cant pay the rent. The landlord is answerable to the lender if they have a mortgage and so it goes on. Nobody has total control of a property even when a mortgage is paid off. We act as if everthing about ownership is totally under our control when the truth is it's not. I'm aware this is off topic but still worth a thought in the bigger picture regarding property.

WombatChocolate · 18/11/2023 16:27

I’m surprised OP that you are just letting this go.

Your tenant has removed and disposed of carpet which given he was only there a year, should have been usable by the next tenant/ your DD. Repairing damage done by installing doors and replacing curtains etc will all close money.

There seems to be a lot of confusion on this thread. Yes, when a tenant is renting a property it does become their home and they are entitled to quiet enjoyment of it and for the LL to maintain it. They are not entitled to make changes to the property without permission. They are entitled to their contractual terms and to be given legal notice.

When tenants move out, LLs or their agents look at the property and assess it. Normal wear and tear is expected and many LLs won’t look to withhold any of the deposit for minor things beyond normal wear and tear. If there is damage beyind normal wear and tear, evidencing it and supplying it to the deposit holding organisation, along with the original inventory for comparison is perfectly normal and expected.

To be honest, this tenant has been trying it on. Saying he was ‘improving the property’ are excuses for what he has done. It is simply not allowed and ‘improving’ is such an arbitrary idea that tenants are not allowed to make that decision. The property is as the LL supplied it and expects it back…not in a different state of layout/flooring/decoration, regardless of the quality. Theoretically a tenant could replace everything in a property with newer and more expensive things and deposit withheld in order to return the property to how it was before. Quite simply the decoration, layout, curtains etc belonged to the LL and whilst the tenant might choose to take down something like curtains and use their own whilst renting, they must be in place by the return.

Making a claim to the deposit holding scheme should be pretty straightforward. They are neutral and will look at the facts. Often LLs are still left with costs after the scheme approves the withholding of some element if the deposit, so often a tenant doesn’t pay the full cost of damages they have done. But getting something g back is usually straightforward when there is a genuine case. And in OP’s scenario it seems really straightforward and clear.

Yes, the tenant is vulnerable and the LA is now involved. It is something for LLs to consider and if he was only there a year, presumably OP knew the kind of tenant she was taking on. Vulnerability however doesn’t mean the LL needs to expect to accept any limitless level of damage or breaking of tenancy terms that occur, without seeking redress. In this case, I’d imagine most LLs woukd seek some form of limited redress. The cost of replacing carpets and making good damage to walls and replacing curtains is likely to be well over £1k of costs and seeking several hundred from the deposit or a proportion of the costs isn’t unreasonable. I would also say it’s actually important that tenants like the one OP has had, understand there are terms in tenancies that need sticking to and there are financial consequences of not doing so. Otherwise, people continue to think they can do whatever they want with no consequence.

When you’re a LL, you certainly need to let some things go sometimes and pick your battles. Tenants moving out smoothly on the date expected counts for a lot, plus of course someone who has paid their rent on time is to be valued. These things are of course contractual agreements but in reality cannot always be relied upon. If I had a tenant who had paid their rent and moved out smoothly, I’d certainly cut them some slack on minor damages and be happy to provide good references. But I wouldn’t be sucking up multiple hundreds of pounds of cost to replace carpets if just installed the year before and which had been removed without my permission. And to be honest, a LL who doesn’t feel able to communicate with the tenant about something like this or to go to the deposit scheme to request holding onto some of the deposit, probably doesn’t have the skills to be a successful LL. Sometimes there are tricky conversations to be had and actions to be taken. It’s all part of it. So maybe it’s better that OP is no longer a LL and instead has her DD living in the property. Even when you have an agent, you have to make some decisions when the agent comes to you and ask you what to do. having an agent can mean you do t have to speak with the tenant yourself, but someone else will have the conversations that some LLs don’t want to have. If however, you don’t have an agent and you’re a LL. you really need to understand when you start up as a LL that you are likely to need to pursue late rent or damage at some point and be prepared to.

To those who are tenants, LLs absolutely should respect the fact that during the tenancy, the property is the tenants’ home. Yes, they need to recognise that the tenant pays a lot of money to live there and consequently is entitled to speedy repairs and quiet enjoyment. But no, the fact they pay rent does not entitle them to make significant changes to the property or to not be held to account via the deposit scheme if they do. Some people seem to think that because tenants pay large rents (and they do) they can then do as they wish and that because a LL has received rent, they have to accept whatever a tenant throws at them in terms of writing off rent arrears, damage, failure to vacate according to legal notices etc. No, tenants are not entitled to these things and just because a LL owns a rented property and the tenants don’t own a property, does not give them a right or excuse to break these terms or think they will get away with it, or elicit sympathy for their actions. OP was sympathetic to the tenant being vulnerable. She was happy to wait for the LA to get invovled in future hosing and to cut him some slack…that’s being human and is always required. Being taken for a total ride isn’t required.

Crikeyalmighty · 18/11/2023 17:05

@WombatChocolate totally agree - and I'm a long term tenant of very nice houses- and the reason we are top of the pile when it comes to getting the lovely places is because we stick to the rules, pay on time and keep places homely but lovely and always seek permission- even if it's just putting up art etc - I don't get these idiots- you need references!!!

WhatYouWearing · 18/11/2023 20:22

EmmaEmerald · 17/11/2023 14:38

@WhatYouWearing hoping you don't feel the same after the update!

@EmmaEmerald I do still feel the same. In fact I'm wondering more about the OP now.

The OP hasn't stated the tenants age but had described him as elderly. She said he was on a one year contract but I highly doubt he knew it was kick out time after that year.

Why would anyone rent a property with new carpets to an elderly, vulnerable, puppy-owning man?

I'd still like to know how old he is. If he's in his 80's @EmmaEmerald would you change your mind?

BabaBarrio · 18/11/2023 21:13

Theoretically a tenant could replace everything in a property with newer and more expensive things and deposit withheld in order to return the property to how it was before..

What? Property must be equivalent condition to the condition it was let in minus allowances for normal wear and tear. If the tenant has bettered the property, the landlord cannot withhold the deposit to reduce the condition of the property down to the lower level it was.

I also do not agree that leaving a property with new curtains and new carpet that were paid for wholly out of the tenants pocket can be classified as damage no matter how much they may not be to a LL’s taste.

WombatChocolate · 19/11/2023 14:11

BabaBarrio · 18/11/2023 21:13

Theoretically a tenant could replace everything in a property with newer and more expensive things and deposit withheld in order to return the property to how it was before..

What? Property must be equivalent condition to the condition it was let in minus allowances for normal wear and tear. If the tenant has bettered the property, the landlord cannot withhold the deposit to reduce the condition of the property down to the lower level it was.

I also do not agree that leaving a property with new curtains and new carpet that were paid for wholly out of the tenants pocket can be classified as damage no matter how much they may not be to a LL’s taste.

The thing is, the LL chooses the items they provide and it is expected that they are there at the end of the tenancy.

A tenant might not like them and rip up a carpet and replace it with something entirely different which they like…but which the LL feels doesn’t match the property or go with the overall decor. It is not acceptable for a tenant to do this unless they have asked.

A tenant might think they have improved a property with their changes, but the point is, it isn’t their choice to decide to change it for better or for worse…whatever those terms mean.

Quite simply, changes need to be put to the LL and permission to carry them out (or a request to the LL to carry them out) made ahead if making those changes. Changing paint colours, removing and disposing of LL provided curtains, fittings, carpets etc or making changes such as structural changes are not something for tenants to choose to do and go ahead with, without the LL permission.

As several tenants on this thread have said, most people understand this. As tenants, if they want a different wall colour they ask the LL about it. The LL can either agree, agree but say the original colour must be repainted by the end of tenancy or say no. Tenants who simply decide they want a change and go ahead with it, rarely fail to understand that’s not acceptable, but instead just do it regardless. They might appear surprised if the LL wants redress via the deposit scheme and claim ignorance about the fact this wasn’t allowed….but usually they were perfectly aware and just hoped it wouldn’t be pursued.

BabaBario, if a tenant swaps the LLs curtains for their own, at the end of the tenancy they should switch them back so the LL receives theirs back. The LL does not want the curtains the tenant chose. The tenant has no right to dispose of the LLs property. It is not up to the tenant to leave the property with just any curtains that they choose to leave.

Re the OPs situation, we don’t know if her curtains were damaged and disposed of, or disliked and disposed of or sold. But the curtains she had provided weee no longer there and the ones left by tenant were not what the LL would have wanted. And it’s the LLs choice, not the tenants.

Most of these issues come down to communication. When tenants want to make changes, they simply need to ask. Some changes won’t be accepted by a LL and the tenant has to accept their decision. Others will be accepted. The problem comes when there has been no communication and on check-out the changes that haven’t been authorised become evident and the tenant doesn’t want to be charged for righting what they have done.

Crikeyalmighty · 19/11/2023 15:10

Sorry @BabaBarrio that isn't the case and I'm a private tenant in nice houses.

Equivalence doesn't come into it- I might decide to replace the landlords crappy shower curtain for instance with an amazing expensive one but at the point of leaving I can then 'ask' the LL if they would like me to leave it there and take photos to show etc- but they are fully entitled to have the crappy one back up if they wish and if I don't and have thrown theirs away I can be charged for it. That's simply how it works.

HomeAloneWithThree · 19/11/2023 16:25

That is betterment. You need to deduct the cost of depreciation.

Managment Agent here 👋🏼

Findinganewme · 19/11/2023 19:06

Check the contract. If the contract says that the flat has to be returned in the condition found, then I would just share that and use reasonable costings to demonstrate the deduction from the deposit. Keep it simple, professional, and factual (with backup evidence).

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 19/11/2023 19:15

This is why landlords should always use a management company. They do inventories, move outs, regular inspections and cover all maintenance, acting as a buffer between the tenant and the landlord. You shouldn’t be contacted directly by the tenant at all.

THEDEACON · 19/11/2023 19:16

Sounds like you've broken the law by bot ensuring the deposit w held in a deposit scheme!

BowlOfNoodles · 19/11/2023 20:48

The moment you said he's vulnerable I think 🤔 this sounds pretty cruel maybe he replaced the carpet because he'd soiled it?

Katbum · 19/11/2023 21:36

He should hand the flat back to you as was, minus wear and tear. He isn’t allowed to change fixtures and fittings such as carpet, curtains, doors etc. You need to tell him to put the home back to as was when he moved in. If he doesn’t you are allowed to charge for the cost of the things minus wear and tear (so not for E.g. new curtains, but what the old ones would have been worth now).

Nanny0gg · 19/11/2023 21:58

THEDEACON · 19/11/2023 19:16

Sounds like you've broken the law by bot ensuring the deposit w held in a deposit scheme!

Where did you get that from?

ACynicalDad · 19/11/2023 22:51

If changes aren’t agreed in writing keep what it costs to revert back and dispose of doors/carpet.

Awittyandclevername · 19/11/2023 23:05

It’s his home!! Tennants pay more per month for their homes than most people with mortgages. I think tbh if it’s a long term tennant they should really be able to decide what the decor is like. Why should it be kept to the landlords taste when they aren’t the ones having to live there? We forget that rent is absolutely extortionate and should definitely pay for a person to live in a home that they can make their own/ feel comfortable in. Might be an unpopular opinion but don’t become a landlord if you can’t bare the thought of someone replacing your blinds.. or put them in your own home.

SweetBirdsong · 20/11/2023 00:45

100% agree @Awittyandclevername

echt · 20/11/2023 01:30

Tennants pay more per month for their homes than most people with mortgages

No they don't. Ridiculous blanket statement.

Mummyoflittledragon · 20/11/2023 03:16

Awittyandclevername · 19/11/2023 23:05

It’s his home!! Tennants pay more per month for their homes than most people with mortgages. I think tbh if it’s a long term tennant they should really be able to decide what the decor is like. Why should it be kept to the landlords taste when they aren’t the ones having to live there? We forget that rent is absolutely extortionate and should definitely pay for a person to live in a home that they can make their own/ feel comfortable in. Might be an unpopular opinion but don’t become a landlord if you can’t bare the thought of someone replacing your blinds.. or put them in your own home.

They don’t on a like for like comparison.

A tenant may pay say £1200 on a property worth £250/300k

This will be as they’re on interest only or because they have a substantial deposit.

Being incredibly generous and presuming a person can get a 100% mortgage over 25 years at 4.5%, which is unlikely in the current economic climate, the payments on a capital repayment basis are:

250k £1389
300k £1667

Both higher than the rental amount. On top of this, landlords have many obligations and pay for repairs and checks, which a property owner would be expected to pay themselves.

ElevenSeven · 20/11/2023 03:16

Awittyandclevername · 19/11/2023 23:05

It’s his home!! Tennants pay more per month for their homes than most people with mortgages. I think tbh if it’s a long term tennant they should really be able to decide what the decor is like. Why should it be kept to the landlords taste when they aren’t the ones having to live there? We forget that rent is absolutely extortionate and should definitely pay for a person to live in a home that they can make their own/ feel comfortable in. Might be an unpopular opinion but don’t become a landlord if you can’t bare the thought of someone replacing your blinds.. or put them in your own home.

Thankfully this is all nonsense and not how the law works.

Saggypants · 20/11/2023 03:27

Awittyandclevername · 19/11/2023 23:05

It’s his home!! Tennants pay more per month for their homes than most people with mortgages. I think tbh if it’s a long term tennant they should really be able to decide what the decor is like. Why should it be kept to the landlords taste when they aren’t the ones having to live there? We forget that rent is absolutely extortionate and should definitely pay for a person to live in a home that they can make their own/ feel comfortable in. Might be an unpopular opinion but don’t become a landlord if you can’t bare the thought of someone replacing your blinds.. or put them in your own home.

Oh come on. You can't throw out the carpet and blinds your flat came with without at least asking the owner if they want them back.

Somewhereoverthersinbowweighapie · 20/11/2023 05:38

I think it sounds like something happened and the carpet and curtains were damaged. The dog was probably destructive so he did a cheap fix. I would wait until you see it, but if he has ruined the place he should lose his deposit. It will cost double the deposit to fix the place.

Ohthatsfabulousdarling · 20/11/2023 05:58

The deposit you can deduct from him works this way.
However long the item should have lasted. IE a carpet could say it'll last 10 years and cost £1000, if its been down 8 years, and tenant moved out. He owes you £200.

I think curtains are probably a year?
What was the guarantee on the blinds?

The deposit scheme would probably allow you reasonable costs to remove the doors and make good of the holes where he has had them attached to the frame.

NeonSoda · 20/11/2023 06:38

Who on earth replaces carpets every seven years? That’s madness and wasteful.

I recently bought a house with the “landlord special” durable but neutral carpets. They’re at least a few years old and I don’t anticipate replacing them for years and years!

There are carpets in my Dads house that haven’t been replaced since I was born and I’m almost 40. Yes they look a little tired but they’re still functional and comfortable!

WombatChocolate · 20/11/2023 06:52

Fortunately, there is law on this. Those who think tenants should be able to whatever they like (or LLs come to that) can think what they like, but the deposit scheme will work via the law.

The OP would be able to claim for the removal of her property and for damages. It is up to her if she wants to claim or not. She says she can’t face it and the agent purely worked on a ‘finder’ basis, so it would be up to her to evidence the property and deal with the deposit scheme. If there was an agent she wouldn’t need to see the property or tenant herself.

Maybe the tenant could tell that Op wouldn’t challenge him or follow-through because she’d prefer an easier life? If being a LL is a business you either need to be willing to pursue your legal rights (some LLs face thousands of damage and totally trashed properties) or to have an agent who will do some of that for you. Otherwise you’re simply not suited to it and pretty likely to be ripped off….as in this example. Again, the accidental LL comes a cropper. Professionalism is needed and this requires the ability to know which things to let go and which need pursuing and the courage and ability to communicate professionally on difficult issues, to know the law and to follow through when needed.