WWYD? Try to negotiate or pull out now?

[Lapine]

Sold our fairly 'new build' house (around 15yrs old). We need somewhere a bit bigger with future potential to extend. Current house doesn't have that potential.

Slim pickings though, and the only way to achieve it on our budget in the current property market (sky high mortgage rates) is to buy an older property.

Found older property - owner passed away, left to their DCs who are now selling it. Obvious it needed modernising in an aesthetic sense - old decor, kitchen cupboards falling off hinges, old knackered timber doors, old tatty carpets, parquet flooring missing blocks, scratched up etc. We accepted that, but offered lower than asking. They ran us up, but still we got it for lower than asking. Not much lower though. And actually we still thought they were taking the piss, but we really need somewhere a bit bigger.

However, when we went to view we were surprised to discover it had a converted loft that had been used as a hobby room (model train sets). It wasn't on the particulars, not on listing pics or the 360° walk through, not mentioned anywhere. So while the extra room would benefit us, it was suspicious it hadn't been mentioned at all. Solicitors have asked for building reg certificate in their enquiries, but vendor simply says "no paperwork available".

So we had a level 3 structural survey done. To ascertain if it's a safe and sound conversion that meets building regs.

Turns out it isn't safe, doesnt meet modern building regs and is causing problems to the roof structure. This is along with a VAST list of other stuff that the surveyor deems as requiring "urgent and/or immediate attention" Basically the garage is a dangerous wreck, the porch is a dangerous wreck, the roof is at risk from a poor loft conversion, all the electrics are unsafe and a total rewiring of the house is needed, no chimney ventilation following installation of a gas fire, no ventilation to the bathroom, black mould, lots of pipework and plumbing is old and brittle so needs replacing, lack of guttering to porch and conservatory has causing water to soaking into the structure causing render to fail and disintegrate at a rapid rate and just pool onto the floor as also no drainage. And more that I won't bore you with as too long.

We WON'T be buying it for the current offer they ran us up to. After getting this survey, we know its not worth that price. And we cannot afford all those renovation costs.

But WWYD. Would you get tradespeople quotes and try to renegotiate the price? Because if renovated this could be a good home for us in the end. But it would mean until certain works are completed, we won't be able to live in it and will have to not only pay the mortgage, but also rent somewhere until the place is safe to move into.

OR would you just walk away now? Let your own buyers down, who are newly wed FTBs currently living with the DHs parents and desperate to have their own home together. Who may say they've had enough of waiting and pull out from purchasing our place. Or if they don't, we have to start the whole process again of having to look for somewhere else, secure a mortgage on it, get a survey blah blah blah, running it all on for another several months.

I'm torn. DH is torn.

WWYD?

Thetrainatplatform4 us correct. I’d be budgeting £150k to fix.

i bought a house that needed a bit of work, we had a survey. I’ve spent about £25k already (roof repairs, dangerous electrics and some modernisation) and now it turns out we need to redo the bathroom (leaking) and 5 windows have failed within a year. Sigh.

Unless you get a massive, massive discount on the price - run. This is not the market to be taking chances in.

I understand that for the vendors, it’s terribly hard to accept that their childhood home is effectively a lemon.

Eventually, they’ll realise it and will have to sell it at a sensible price, probably to a builder or to someone who wants the land, but I think that a couple of sales will need to fall through first before the penny drops.

It’s worth reducing your offer by the cost of making it safe (you’d already factored a new kitchen and carpets etc) but don’t hold out too much hope because percentage-wise, it is a big drop that may seem formidable to the vendors right now.

I’d look for somewhere similar to your current home that has outdoor space for a workshop and a kitchen extension tbh.

So you said the only way you can get a house this size for your budget is to buy an old one in need of modernisation. So it would be more expensive if all the work you've listed was already done.

That's a snarky response to posters (including me) who have responded in good faith to you asking for opinions on whether to proceed with the house purchase.

Lots of us would like to be able to live in houses with space for entertaining, hosting, hobbies etc. But if we can't afford to then we have to put up with what we have as best we can.

All the best with your decision, it's a tough one.

That all does sound very expensive to fix. Was the property already priced with all this considered? How does it benchmark against similar properties in the area?

If the vendors have already priced it lower knowing the buyer would need to do a lot of work then they may be reluctant to come down much more. However if it was priced as though it was just cosmetic needs then I would ask for a considerable chunk off and be prepared to walk away if they say no.

Theres a lot of people here telling you it will be over £100K to fix. We bought a fixer upper 2 years ago (3 bed semi):

£7K rewire
£5K new boiler and pipework (was lead)
£12K new bathroom
£12K new kitchen
£1K a room that needs plaster sorting

We looked at a loft conversion and were quoted £40-50K. You'll spend that retrofitting the conversion to make it safe.

Add on the cost of sorting the guttering, garage, porch, fixing damage to roof from the bad conversion, what damage the water has done to house structure.

Don't get me wrong, you can do beautiful stuff when redoing it - you can get power put into the garage as part of the rewire. You can add your own stamp. But only if you get it at the right price and have the time and money to put into renovation, which you don't.

Personally I think this has got financial catastrophe written all over it as I said upthread, but what's to stop you getting all the quotes you need to inform a reduced offer and looking around for a new place to buy? If you ended up not being able to agree a price with the vendors after all, your buyers would be more likely to hang on if you've already found a replacement property, I'd think. And you never did really address the idea of selling and moving into rented. You said you couldn't afford to rent, but had previously said you'd live in a rental while you do up the money pit. I reckon finding a new purchase will take less time than the renovation, so it ought to be doable really. I honestly wouldn't lose your buyers above all, not in this market.

Maybe that's the reason nothing apart from this wasn't sold.

I'd pull out

Thank you for the helpful advice.

Yes, there was a snarky response to the posters who felt it necessary to chime in with snarky "I dont understand why you need more space if you've only got 1 dc" comments, even though it's nobody elses business why we need more space, and it wasnt the opinions/advice I asked for. Why we need more space is irrelevant to the question. So yeah, if people get snarky with me, I'll get snarky back

Anyway, we're pulling out and starting our search again. We don't want to rent again. We don't want to live elsewhere before we can move into the home we're actually buying. We don't want to take on a lengthy full-on renovation project that eats up precious time and headspace. We don't want to waste more time trying to renegotiate a new price we know will be a blow to them and won't be accepted. We've accepted now this won't be our new home.

Thank you for the useful input, it's been very helpful.

The opinionated ones though... totally pointless

OP has not exchanged contracts, just made an offer which they have then withdrawn on the results of the structural survey.

@Lapine

I think it's a good move for you to pull out, even though the whole thing is frustrating. Better pull out now than have all the head/heartache and huge expense and time investment of outing right the proposed new home. Fingers crossed for the next steps. 🌹

Although if there is an inheritance tax bill waiting, they may do a deal (you get 6 months and then HMRC start charging interest).

We had work done pre-pandemic. It was around £100k for what sounds like less than you need to do. I think it would be at least £50k more now.

I'm another one saying negotiate but be prepared to walk away.

Ah sorry! RTFT!

Probate sales can be a nightmare because:

1. The adult dc are generally squabbling with each other so any price negotiations are a nightmare as they can't agree.

1. They feel guilty for allowing their parent to live in a house which desperately needed work. But they can't admit it to themselves so just pretend its it's fine, which includes refusing to drop the price.

1. In a group, people get greedier-more hands in the pot.

Personally I wouldn't do this. You would have the upheaval and costs of moving twice plus you will be paying rent and inflation will mean the worth of your savings will decrease while you are paying rent.
OP I don't know what I would do in your circumstance but I think I might get more advice about how much the urgent building work would cost and if the house would be liveable while you do them sometimes surveyors make things sound much worse than they are. Eg we were told we needed a new roof we did have one but only after we had been in the house 20 +years.
if you decide not to buy I would look for somewhere else and if the buyers pull out put your house back on the market.

I was referring to the OP’s buyers. I understand she can back out of her purchase deal after the negative survey.

I’m also aware procedures could be very different in the UK.