WWYD? Try to negotiate or pull out now?

[Lapine]

Sold our fairly 'new build' house (around 15yrs old). We need somewhere a bit bigger with future potential to extend. Current house doesn't have that potential.

Slim pickings though, and the only way to achieve it on our budget in the current property market (sky high mortgage rates) is to buy an older property.

Found older property - owner passed away, left to their DCs who are now selling it. Obvious it needed modernising in an aesthetic sense - old decor, kitchen cupboards falling off hinges, old knackered timber doors, old tatty carpets, parquet flooring missing blocks, scratched up etc. We accepted that, but offered lower than asking. They ran us up, but still we got it for lower than asking. Not much lower though. And actually we still thought they were taking the piss, but we really need somewhere a bit bigger.

However, when we went to view we were surprised to discover it had a converted loft that had been used as a hobby room (model train sets). It wasn't on the particulars, not on listing pics or the 360° walk through, not mentioned anywhere. So while the extra room would benefit us, it was suspicious it hadn't been mentioned at all. Solicitors have asked for building reg certificate in their enquiries, but vendor simply says "no paperwork available".

So we had a level 3 structural survey done. To ascertain if it's a safe and sound conversion that meets building regs.

Turns out it isn't safe, doesnt meet modern building regs and is causing problems to the roof structure. This is along with a VAST list of other stuff that the surveyor deems as requiring "urgent and/or immediate attention" Basically the garage is a dangerous wreck, the porch is a dangerous wreck, the roof is at risk from a poor loft conversion, all the electrics are unsafe and a total rewiring of the house is needed, no chimney ventilation following installation of a gas fire, no ventilation to the bathroom, black mould, lots of pipework and plumbing is old and brittle so needs replacing, lack of guttering to porch and conservatory has causing water to soaking into the structure causing render to fail and disintegrate at a rapid rate and just pool onto the floor as also no drainage. And more that I won't bore you with as too long.

We WON'T be buying it for the current offer they ran us up to. After getting this survey, we know its not worth that price. And we cannot afford all those renovation costs.

But WWYD. Would you get tradespeople quotes and try to renegotiate the price? Because if renovated this could be a good home for us in the end. But it would mean until certain works are completed, we won't be able to live in it and will have to not only pay the mortgage, but also rent somewhere until the place is safe to move into.

OR would you just walk away now? Let your own buyers down, who are newly wed FTBs currently living with the DHs parents and desperate to have their own home together. Who may say they've had enough of waiting and pull out from purchasing our place. Or if they don't, we have to start the whole process again of having to look for somewhere else, secure a mortgage on it, get a survey blah blah blah, running it all on for another several months.

I'm torn. DH is torn.

WWYD?

Would it be worth £450k modernised? Is that what similar houses sell for in the area? If not, don't buy it.

Definitely walk away. That is a lot of work and the cost has rocketed since the pandemic. The sellers don't sound as if they are realistic/ reasonable so are v unlikely to accept a large reduction.
You don't need a bigger space with only one child.
If you are unable to rent in your area, pull out and wait a while.

Offer what you are happy to pay and move in as it is (think about they have lived in it likely for years). Start with the loft get a builder round to make it safe and don't worry about making it meet modern standards unless it's a condition of your mortgage or you want to sell it as a habitual room. Rewire for us was 4k (5 bed detached) as DH ran most of the wires electrical connected them, making good the mess was a further 5k tho as was a full decoration job.

Why do you need more space with one child? If it is for a business, or loads of pets? If you can just stick it out until more is on the market it should be easier to buy somewhere that fits your criteria.

Also confused why if you are in a 3 bed already with just the one child that you would want to put yourself through this - even at a knockdown price it will be years of work and tens upon tens of thousands of pounds - it sounds like a total money pit - strip back to brick gut every room and start again job....for what exactly? What extra space would you be gaining to compensate for the absolutely stress and nightmare this project has written all over it?

Personally I'd walk away from that, but I wouldn't lose your sale. If you can afford to rent while you're doing up the money pit to end all money pits, why can't you rent for what will almost certainly be a shorter timeframe to find a new purchase?

With that massive long list of NECESSARY work before it’s even safe, I’d take a pass, even if they did lower the price. It really could take ages and a fortune to make it right.

I don’t live in the UK, so I imagine it’s different, but chances are where I am that I wouldn’t have the option to back out of the deal with the buyers for my home, unless I had specifically written it into the contract (it happens but isn’t the norm).

We need more space as we both have our own businesses in the trades. These businesses support us, keep bills paid and food on the table. To keep business costs to a minimum, we store our stock, tools and materials at home. Storage units are too far away and too costly. We also conduct some of the labour at home. We also need an office, as having to do all our admin/client liaising from various parts of the home, such as the lounge, is becoming a pain in the arse.

Our DC also has some hobbies that require more space. He's severely ADHD/ASD and these hobbies have a positive effect on his mental wellbeing. Cramped into a tiny box room isn't helping him develop those hobbies and interests. We have him in a cabin bed with the small amount of his belongings crammed under it, but he gets a bit upset with it. He wants a proper bed like other kids and he wants to be able to have his friends round for sleepovers and play days. As an only child he needs that extra social input. The house we're in is too small for that. We tried sleepovers twice, but put them in the living room. But we had to literally move all our furniture into entirely different spaces just to create a surface area big enough for a couple of blow up beds. It just isn't practical.

And while we may only have 1 dc, we do have a fairly large extended family who socialises and meets up often at each others homes. Whenever we're all round at ours, people are leaning on the walls, sitting on window sills, spilling into the tiny hallway, we can't fit enough chairs in and we definitely can't have anyone round for dinner. Even just for the 3 of us, we have to shove the sofa out of the way so we can pull a tiny square table out so the three of us can sit around it without our knees up against our chests.

Two people can't be in the kitchen at the same time, you tread on eachothers toes, you get in each others way. My DH is a big foodie and loves to cook. Most of his cooking gizmos and gadgets that aren't used on a daily basis have to be stored in a cupboard upstairs. The kitchen only has room for the absolute essentials. He's also ADHD and cooking has a calming effect on him. In this house he's not able to cook like he used to.

This tiny tiny compact house is struggling to cope with us, and we're struggling to cope with it. We've outgrown it. We NEED somewhere a bit bigger. Only having 1 dc doesn't mean we don't have other aspects of our lives that require a bit more space.

And the house we offered on isn't much bigger. Just slightly bigger in that it had a garage (to store our work stuff) a compact conservatory (to use as a dining room as the kitchen can't accommodate a table and chairs) and an extra loft space to use as a bedroom for our son for his hobbies and friends, so the box room can be used as an office, and then we'd have another spare room for a couple of guests - as my family live 200 miles away and it'd be nice for them to visit us more without having to worry about hotel costs).

This is what led us to offer. Not because it was a huge mansion and we're trying to move to somewhere unrealistically massive. Merely a slight step up in space to ease the pressure.

But it's transpired that that loft room that was so attractive (and DC was so excited about) and the garage, and the conservatory - all still small spaces, but exciting extra bits of space for us nonetheless - has become the reason for needing to rethink the whole thing.

^ Long winded, and more detail than I expected to have to give. But seeing that there's certain posters who think having only 1 DC means we should be forever happy to live in a shoebox, I thought I'd elaborate a bit more.

You really don't need to qualify why you want more space, OP - I have a large property because I like space, no other reason. Lots of posters would say I'm selfishly hogging a home!

But, with that additional info, definitely avoid this house! The last thing you need is the sort of stress that comes with renovation. You'll find another, much better suited property, best of luck whatever you decide.

Absolutely Annoying sellers. Sounds like a money pit, maybe not what you're really looking for, despite the space.
Also, if the council find out about the unsafe loft they will make you take it out at your own expense.
I would avoid this place.
Market is now a buyer's market, so don't give up. Something will come up!

Based on your update, I would think the ongoing disruption this house renovation will bring to your daily life would be a complete ordeal. That's before you even consider whether the work needed is viable or affordable.

my initial thoughts were, run. On consideration, though, if, and only if, you are prepared to go through a major renovation project, it would be worth getting extensive and as far as possible accurate quotes for all the major works needing doing and presenting those to the estate agent as the basis for renegotiations. Surveys are always cautious but the red flags on the survey are sufficient to mean that any future prospective buyers will get similar red flags and renegotiate asap as well. Not a builder but the pp who suggested £100k is probably not far short of the cost. Presumably you had already factored in updating - kitchen, bathrooms, etc - but it sounds as though the house requires new roof and therefore loft room, and porch, garage and conservatory basically knocking down and starting again.

Having read your update I still don't think it's worth this house. Have you worked out the cost of the building work vs renting a storage space for your work or taking a small office? With an ADHD husband ASD child and running 2 businesses from the home in which you will need to gut this sounds even more completely impractical

Oh and £100k is conservative

New roof £20k plus depending on how much structural repair work required
New conservatory £20k
New kitchen £10k
Re wire £7k
New plumbing £10k
New plastering £5k
Re render £7k
Rebuild garage £7k
New carpets £5k plus
General decorations £2k
£20k for anything else on the surveyors list
Presumably new windows £10knminimum
*Massive Contingency
*
Id say you are looking at £150k

If you think you can upgrade that place on a few thousand then you're in cuckoo land. That's tens of thousands of pounds of work as it will require gutting by the sound of it. Complete rewire, new plumbing, rebuild of garage and porch and maybe roof. Re-rendering and treatment for the black mould. Plastering and redecoration. You'll easily work through £100k. It will be years of work and in the meantime you'll seriously piss off the neighbours with the never ending work required.

The vendors sound greedy for maximum inheritance, so doubt they'll sell for a realistic price.

This

I think it's very obvious the vendors are unrealistic and won't come down anywhere near enough on the asking price.

They think they are going to get a great price for the house. I don't think they will in the end but you are up against unrealistic sellers unfortunately.

And agree with others that your update just makes the house seem even less of a good idea for your family. Appreciate you need a house with plenty of space but think you would regret buying this house.

Do they know the survey results? How bad it is? If the EA explains it to them, how bad it is, might they shift?

I would still walk away. I can’t imagine the sellers will drop the amount you need to.

I'm in an old house (1880) that had way less problems than yours.

We have a loft room that isn't building regs now but we still use as bedroom- no issues with the roof. Even then we had to gut the room as it had 1960s carpet and built in wardrobes that were falling down.

Had to re roof parts of the house - dormers, garage, outbuilding, sort damp, new kitchen, re floor etc. We did all the decorating ourselves and I'm quite canny at getting good deals eg kitchen-

However all the work cost the best part of £50k and most of it was stuff you can't see like damp and roof.

Yours will cost so much more - I'd walk away unless they drop at least £100k!

I should add we've been here almost 3 years and it was £50k that first year - prices gone up loads since then!

Get a rough idea of costs. Add on at least 20% for contingencies and deduct that.

Will be a lot to just rebuild the garage by the sounds of it. Fixing the loft room could be more than putting it in in the first place. Sounds like 50k of repair work depending on the size. The you have all the other bits you've mentioned. I'd be putting away at least 75k for renovation and I'd want 50k off the agreed price. They may not accept but they won't sell for what they want as every time someone gets a survey the same thing will happen.

If you can't afford to sell yours and rent while waiting for a better house to buy...

(you'd still have a deposit so even if the rent is more than the mortgage it shouldn't be a problem and you'd be ftb for any purchase)

...then surely you can't afford to buy this place and rent somewhere while the work is being done?

If it was me I'd ask for the sellers to reduce the price based on the cost of a new roof and anything else that is dangerous or structural (a new kitchen can wait).

If they choose not to then I'd withdraw and look for somewhere else. Ask your buyers how long they're prepared to wait. If needed I'd complete my sale and rent.

The sellers might agree to get the work done themselves and not reduce which is probably the best outcome as you could then move straight in

The update doesn't change my opinion that you should pull out. Doing all the work which might cost 150k (you are bound to uncover more problems) with a child with ASD sounds like a total nightmare. That is, even if you could negotiate a 6 figure reduction. I don't think there is any chance of this with the unrealistic sellers.