Why don't they change the awful way properties are bought/sold in the UK?

[wereonthemarket]

Surely it isn't in anyone's interests to have such a flakey, stressful system in place.

People view. They make an offer which doesn't really mean a lot. Buyer accepts. Survey is done. Buyer renegotiates offer.

Then at any point - even after each party has spent potentially thousands either one can pull out or completely change the offer?!

Why isn't the insane system streamlined? Buyer lists property and pays for survey, searches etc which are shown to potential buyers. An offer is made with the seller paying 10% deposit. And surely then everything moves faster, is less stressful and stops so many sales falling through?

Generally they do. Any agent worth their salt should be getting verification that a 'cash buyer' really is a cash buyer.

Problem is, even if someone can prove funds, it doesn't always follow that they definitely will use those funds for the transaction.

I have bought 5 times and sold 4 times, the longest chain was 5 people,

Heaven knows it is stressful, and I think many of @DepartureLounge 's points would help.

In the end though I don't want to be tied into a sale until exchange (that's the whole point - that's The Contract) and I don't want to exchange until I know that all my questions and queries about the house I am buying are answered to my satisfaction, and that I know exactly how much I will get for my sale.

I've dealt with two property sales and one purchase in the last couple of years (in England). The whole thing was an absolute shit show, and incredibly stressful. I wonder if more could be done in terms of having surveys etc done upfront, at the time of marketing the property, to reduce uncertainty and negotiation.

Estate agents check that cash buyers have the funds in their bank before accepting an offer but the solicitors will want to prove where the money actually came from, eg. inheritance or whatever, which can take longer and hold up proceedings.

Heaven knows it is stressful, and I think many of @DepartureLounge's points would help.

Maybe a couple of useful and interesting points in there from @DepartureLounge some difficult to enforce, others already exist. In particular, I agree about legislation covering the field of estate agency. There's plenty of laws they should abide by, but it is very ineffectually enforced.

https://hoa.org.uk/advice/guides-for-homeowners/i-am-buying/estate-agents-legal-obligations-to-buyers/

Not many people have a 10% deposit in the bank, so that wouldn't work.

Said it before and received snide comments but the system in NZ is pretty good. You can buy a house in about 12 weeks, legal fees are around £800, a comprehensive building report is around £300. A LIM which sets out the house plans, any alterations ( if it’s not on the LIM it’s not legal), fireplaces etc etc is about £100 from the council. These costs will have gone up as it was 5 years ago, but for a 4 bed detached property I think the costs involved are reasonable, process is fairly swift and transparent with not much room for idiots.

1. Find house, make an offer ( this can be countered, declined, meet in middle etc) there is usually a clause that offer is subject to building reports/ finance) think you then have 14 days to sort but many ppl pre approved for finance anyway or cash buyers.
2. Building report, some ppl don’t bother, they are bonkers imho, some renegotiation, ie ours found a small issue with the roof and a leak in the toilet which vendor fixed via plumber and we got the receipt.
3. Instruct lawyer
4. Negotiate moving dates, Lawyers, lawyer about …
5. Pay your deposit which is I think 10%. If you pull out now the vendor keeps the deposit. This is known as going unconditional … ime this takes about 6 weeks from first offer. Banks do offer bridging loans here if moving from one property to another
6. Do final inspections, take measurements etc etc negotiate chattels not listed on sale contract, like we paid extra for the wood in the wood shed
7. meet lawyer to pay remainder of council tax etc… sign papers. Lawyer checks if you have a mortgage you have buildings insurance
8. Pay balance am, get keys pm

As a bonus become really good friends with the vendor when her post redirect lets her down and you find house in Apple pie order, that she has left every receipt since she bought the property, instructions for how to care for some great plants and all instruction manuals for heat pumps, oven and dishwasher. When we paid our deposit she even let us cut a tree down because we needed fencing put in to stop our spaniel grifting for food from neighbours and the fencer could only give us certain dates. Once deposit is paid that’s it more or less. We changed moving dates to suit her as her retirement home villa wasn’t quite ready.

The only downside to this system is it can be tricky if you move from one place to another immediately as there are no chains as such. However a week or so in Airbnb etc is so much less pain than buyers pulling out, sellers pulling out etc etc

DH has bought and sold in the UK and says it’s is three times the stress it is here.

Aus is similar to NZ but the standard timeframe is 8 weeks from offer being accepted. Usually takes a few days at most to negotiate price between seller/buyer, then both parties sign contract. Pay minimal holding deposit. 2 week cooling off period on contract which allows buyers to get building/pest inspection if they did not do so prior to initial offer, plus have bank confirm loan if needed as they need to value the property they will be financing. That 2 week period is where buyer can back out or can attempt to renegotiate price based on inspection reports, but seller can’t back out or increase price. Then you pay 10% and solicitors do paperwork, bank puts finance in place and 6 weeks later you get the keys. If buyer change their minds during this 6 weeks they lose the 10% to seller for inconvenience. If it’s an auction though, you skip the first 2 weeks, sign and put down 10% on the day and then get keys 6 weeks later.

I find this stressful enough, I couldn’t be doing with the chain stress on top of that.
Should say, this is for the State I am in, different States work slightly differently in Aus.

Omg, would this be the "good high street agent" of myth?

In Scotland it’s common to rely on the sellers home report (which is effectively a survey for mortgage valuation purposes). It’s rare a lender would make you get your own

I have bought and sold two houses in France, always to French people both vendors and purchasers. I don’t recognise this statement at all. It goes like this:

The buyer makes an offer which is accepted. You then proceed to exchange ( sign the compromis) which is prepared by the agent or the notaire. There is no set time between offer and compris, you agree it between you. It is dependant on the buyer demonstrating their ability to buy ( either having a mortgage arranged or an agreed sale or just money) and being content with the house, the offer etc. There is not a standard contract covering fixtures etc so this has to be specified by the compromis specifically each time.

once you have both signed the compromis, each party has ten days to withdraw for no other reason than changing their mind. After that you can work to the date specified in the agreement, usually three months but doesn’t have to be.

IME, there’s not much to choose between them, except that the British stand enquiries to contract make a detailed statement of intent much easier to achieve. Thé notaire providing the equivalent of the searches is as dependent on their speed and competence as much as any other search.

Although the notaire completes the transaction and we all sign the final act in their presence, it is fairly standard for each party to have a notaire present to expedite the system , and look after the interests of the designating party. Thé notaire is a state official and his main duty is to collect the fees due to the state, not to look after anyones interests.

The French estate agents are more engaged , as they prepare the first contract and hold the deposit. I have had decent relations with two of the three agent we used, two I would say became friends. The enquiries to contract are less efficient because not standard, though.

But apart from the useful council registered building alterations etc, that is pretty much exactly the English system.

Bridging loans and AirBnB etc are available here, if people choose to buy and sell chain free.

Simply, you lose your deposit! Unless you can persuade the seller to renegotiate or delay. This is why most people move very , very slowly in France, when we did a simultaneous or at least on the same day buy and sell both thé immobilier and thé notaire had never done it before. ( They we’re really chuffed when they achieved it, and it took the whole day). Most people in our experience sell ( or arrange finance) and then make their offer.

so the very long chain I suspect is very unusual. I think the notaire would/ could only deal with one purchase at a time, so only the buyer and seller of each house would be present. As every page of every document is read out and signed by everyone involved, it takes literally hours to do one purchase ( and you have to stop for lunch between 12 and 14.00, or the sky would fall in).

Obviously my experience is limited to buying and selling two quite expensive houses, all from and to people who were not FTB or particularly cash strapped.

My cousin emigrated to the USA a few years ago and he couldn't believe how much easier the system is there. Most sales are done in 6 weeks unless an extended completion is negotiated.

YANBU. My relatives are in Canada and recently moved house (sold and bought) in the space of six weeks. SIX WEEKS! No messing about over there, or most other places from what I hear.

But apart from the useful council registered building alterations etc, that is pretty much exactly the English system.

It doesn't seem to be all that different! Just that the LIM has all planning/building regs/boiler/electrics docs available upfront.

We could do that, call it a home information pack or something....? 😉

Also, I wonder why lenders won't provide a full mortgage offer, subject to satisfactory valuation? An AIP is hardly worth the paper it's written on.

The differences are that you don’t tend to get people trying to renegotiate the price once the sale and purchase agreement has been signed at stage 1, unless there is a proven building issue. People do not randomly try to renegotiate £10,000 off the sale and purchase agreement the night before going unconditional because they ‘ feel the market has changed’.

Home loan pre approval here seems to make it a lot less likely buyers will fall over due to finance, as long as you have your deposit and it’s in budget/ mortgage repayment allowance banks do not suddenly say you cannot buy that house/ it’s not worth what we are loaning you.

The LIM is, in most cases, far more comprehensive than a home info pack/ relies on building inspector sign offs. There is also generally less back and forth between solicitors questioning this and that. Although I do concede there are fewer potential pitfalls like a random public right of way from 1645 going through your driveway etc… fences are jointly owned with standard rules.

Our house before this one was done and dusted in 7 weeks.

It is faster and cheaper than the UK system.

Tbf that's one more than me, and there were no mortgages involved in ours - so I bow to your experience!

From our perspective it was much easier and less stressful than a UK purchase.

People do not randomly try to renegotiate £10,000 off the sale and purchase agreement the night before going unconditional because they ‘ feel the market has changed’

That's pretty rare in fairness, although I agree having people locked in to an agreed price at an early stage is obviously far more preferable.

The LIM is, in most cases, far more comprehensive than a home info pack/ relies on building inspector sign offs. There is also generally less back and forth between solicitors questioning this and that

There's no reason why a HIP shouldn't have been pretty comprehensive. And building regs completion certificates are signed off by an actual building inspector.

There is also generally less back and forth between solicitors questioning this and that

That's the probably the most significant issue with the current English system. Half the process is slowed down by someone needing to cover their own backside! Solicitors want every box ticked, or random pointless indemnity policies. Surveyor reports filled with caveats. Surely we can't be that much more litigious than other countries??

*Sorry - I meant English purchase not UK 😳

One of the big holdups in the UK are the chains. It seems like a lot of vendors agree a sale and then make the buyer wait for months until they find another house they like. In other countries it's not the buyer's problem if the vendor doesn't have another house to go to. A completion date is agreed and it's up to the vendor to move into rental or an Airbnb if required.

The US system, where I am, is much better. View, make an offer, subject to inspection. When the offer acceptance is signed by the seller, the parties are bound and the buyer pays "earnest money". Following inspection, if issues are found, the parties can renegotiate or the buyer can walk away. Closing is typically 6-8 weeks later - keys exchanged, final documents signed. It's very typical for buyers to do a walk though of the house the night before to ensure all is in order - everything moved out, cleaned, etc.

The idea of multiple parties swapping keys on the same day is absolute madness. I cannot imagine why the UK system has evolved in this way.

I think it should be easier for sellers to bypass the EA role if they want

Part of the problem is, a not insignificant portion of the great British public are quite bonkers!

The biggest issue with it wasn't that the Tories hated it, but that buyers, and in particular buyers banks, didn't trust it so insisted on independent searches, surveys, reports anyway. Meaning buyers and sellers incurred cost. So the government took the pragmatic approach of reverting to how things had been before

We sold our Edinburgh property to a young couple of FTB moving up from England in 1998. We and our removal men were at our new place on the other side of the country when we discovered they hadn't paid, so neither could we... Our solicitor arranged an emergency bridging loan and we got the keys. FTB had to pay not only the price agreed but also the arrangement fees and interest on the loan, it took 10 days after we put that rocket up their arses but the agreement was absolutely binding. 1998 was not 40 years ago.