Why don't they change the awful way properties are bought/sold in the UK?

[wereonthemarket]

Surely it isn't in anyone's interests to have such a flakey, stressful system in place.

People view. They make an offer which doesn't really mean a lot. Buyer accepts. Survey is done. Buyer renegotiates offer.

Then at any point - even after each party has spent potentially thousands either one can pull out or completely change the offer?!

Why isn't the insane system streamlined? Buyer lists property and pays for survey, searches etc which are shown to potential buyers. An offer is made with the seller paying 10% deposit. And surely then everything moves faster, is less stressful and stops so many sales falling through?

people are paying for the same searches as everyone else in the street - what a waste of time and money!

Local searches give a huge amount of information that is specific to an individual property - building regs compliance, planning approvals, boiler/electrics updates.

Yep. There must surely be something better than what we have now which is stressful, expensive and awful for everyone involved .

"The English system of buying and selling property is a simple, quick, easy to navigate and fair process;"

said NO ONE. EVER.

I have always said that if a political party ever adopted this shit show as part of their manifesto it should absolutely be a vote winner - across loads of age groups. I don't know why they won't take it on as it has to be easier than sorting out the NHS and Education

I've seen all sorts of things done but the most common is that the person who needs to both buy and sell a house:

1. Finds a house they like and leaves a deposit with the solicitor with an agreed date to complete
2. Puts their house for sale (or had already done so). They can also choose to take a deposit from the buyer.
3. You can chain this up that way a few times, I guess!
4. Someone along this chain has money :) and pays to someone selling the house and people start following up on their deposits and move in

Sometimes, you see the Notaries arrange financing. They are the ones actually receiving deposits and handling the monies being moved from buyer to seller.
So, they are, by design, very stable financially and I can only assume they have some underwriting from a bank to draw some extra cash if they need to make a deal happen.

I've used the Scottish system somewhat and the English system a lot. I'm not nearly as much of a fan of the Scottish system as most people on MN seem to be (mostly people with no experience of it, it often seems to me). I detest the offers over system, which can be a real waste of time and money, and it's a myth that offers are binding. (I also know a few people who have bought and sold in France and that's by no means without its horror stories either.)

I agree the English system has some gaping shortcomings though, and to my mind what's wanted is a kind of pick'n'mix overhaul. As I see it, the main problems in the English system are the way EAs conduct themselves, and timewasters.

I personally think EAs should only be used to market properties - take photos, conduct viewings if asked, act as introduction agencies in effect. I think it should be easier for sellers to bypass the EA role if they want, and be able to access the online portals like RM direct. EAs are not professionals, apart from the few who are also surveyors, and if they have a code of conduct, well, it doesn't have teeth. We all know they take it upon themselves to blu-tak failing chains together with lies, that they coerce buyers into selling through them to get their offer favoured, that they overvalue to get the business, that they encourage gazumping, and so much more - I'm sure you all have your own stories. I don't think EAs should be allowed to offer financial advice or conveyancing, as there are conflicts of interest. Both offers and the progression of sales should be done by conveyancers imo.

I think sellers should have to reach a lowish bar before houses can be marketed. As in Scotland, sellers should pay for a basic survey done by the surveyor for the area, providing a valuation and basic info that would allow buyers to identify money pits in advance. Buyers should then be responsible for their own detailed surveys and reports. Sellers should have to evidence legal availability for sale and everyone with a legal interest should have to agree in writing. Probate should be granted before probate properties can be marketed.

Crucially, buyers should be better vetted. If you're getting a mortgage, you should have your offer in principle in hand, if you're a cash buyer, your cash should be evidenced and liquid. This should be done by your solicitor before offers can be made. AMLR checks should be done before offers can be made. No "cash buyers" who are going to have cash when they've mortgaged or sold another property, finalised their divorce or sold their Sierra Leonean diamonds. Sellers should have the right to limit viewings to buyers who have evidenced funds up to the value of the house.

If requested, a buyer or seller's conduct in previous chains should be discloseable by their solicitor, i.e. have they pulled out of a transaction previously, and if so why. (I accept people could get round this by changing solicitors though there could be some way of digitising their transaction record and linking it to name/address/DOB etc.) Where a house sale has failed because a buyer pulled out, EAs should have to disclose that to new prospective purchasers, with the reason verified by the seller's solicitor. Gazumping and gazundering should be illegal, but if transactions exceed certain time limits, a legitimate renegotiating of the price if the market has changed significantly should be allowed. Properties should automatically stop being marketed once a sale is agreed.

But imo both buyers and sellers should be allowed to change their minds for any reason at any point up to exchange, while understanding that that decision will be recorded and may be used to form an opinion about them in a subsequent transaction.

I'm sure people can add to that list, but I think it would cover a lot of the common stunts that people pull. I don't think it would be too hard to implement either, though there would have to be the political will to do it (and I don't see estate agents being pleased, boohoohoo).

I posted this too quickly yes or course you can withdraw an offer bur if its accepted its difficult to withdraw.

Wasn’t the Home Information Packs idea an attempt to make the whole process more transparent and streamlined? Only the EPC has survived, but I thought it was quite a good idea and would prevent all the renegotiating after survey. I forget why it was abandoned, but the plan was certainly to get the surveying and information gathering done in advance by a third party, even if paid for by the seller.

We’re putting together our own DIY information pack on the property we’re selling, just to be as helpful as possible. We were going to commission our own independent survey but we’re advised against it by the EA. He just said it was pointless rather than that it was a negative.

The Labour government did try and do something about this years ago - but it got ripped to shreds by everyone from Daily Mail up (which I always thought was mad). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Information_Pack
It ended up bring hugely watered down. I think things like EPCs came from it but the original intent was to make it much wider. I think part of the issue is that some people decide not to have surveys, so people didn't want to pay for surveys before the house went to market. But in my opinion, the whole system is now so broken that they should have another shot at it. Esp things like searches, which everyone usually does.

Totally agree. The system is rubbish. Where I'm from, seller posts an ad, either directly in newspapers/property websites, or through an estate agent. Potential buyers get in touch, arrange a viewing, ask all the questions, make an offer. Offer is accepted, negotiated and agreed, or rejected. Deposit paid in an escrow account.
Buyer gets bank approval for mortgage- bank will send a valuer. There are standard official templates for the contract, you get a lawyer to review and confirm. Then, everyone goes to the local municipal office, gets papers notarized and bank transfers made. Contract signed, registered with the municipal corporation, attested copies returned. Keys handed over. Can be done in weeks.

If someone has to sell and buy, you get bridging loans to buy, move out and then complete the sale.

Down here 'offers over £250k' means the sellers won't take less than that,rather than 'we're looking for £300k'.

I'm so confused by this.

How can a buyer list a property? (do you posting an add like 3 bed wanted?)

Why would a seller pay 10% (and of what)?

Have you got them backwards?

Do you mean the SELLER lists their house and pays for a survery and searches and then the BUYER pays a 10% deposit?

The other issue is the mad regional systems we have. So you have councils trying to stick s106 restrictions everywhere and then you have to try and match that up to a one-size-fits-all mortgage companies. Planning officers don't have a clue of the impact of their restrictions, but have a fun power play sticking them everywhere.

Why do people here seem to hate ‘offers over’? I ask because that’s what we’ve done. We have deliberately priced competitively — around £100k (which is more than 10%) less than equivalent properties in the area — but it is actually the lowest we will accept. I don’t see the point in messing about and looking as if we may accept 10% lower than that.

How do enquiries and searches work in other countries? Is is because England has such old housing stock there are more likely to be issues?

But then there are plenty of old apartment buildings in continental Europe. How does it work there if you're already committed to the purchase?

There are still structural surveys to be done and not all surveyors are good. People want to instruct their own as they wouldn't trust the sellers surveyor

Agreed. We gave up our jobs, packed up and 'sold' our house, booked removals to move 300 miles to our 'dream' house.

Our sellers changed their minds on the day of exchange which happened to be two days before completion.

Never let your solicitor persuade you that a two day gap between exchange and completion is a good idea. We lost thousands. My partner ended up unemployed for 6 months.

Also annoying that searches are quite often non-transferable. We recently bought. A sale had fallen through 7 months prior, after searches. Our solicitor insisted on new searches as they are ‘only valid for 6 months’. She was adamant something could have changed! Cost time and money…

It really doesn't work- people wait for ages and get messed around at the last minute, affecting a whole chain of people.

I have bought and sold houses in Canada, the UK, and twice in Portugal- I'd never do it again in the UK!

O_O

I am so sorry this happened to you. Do you have a lovely home now?

In Scotland the seller gets a Home Report done before sale and will include the home report value, which is the amount the banks will give you a mortgage on. Our offers over are usually based on that value.

So when I bought my flat in Edinburgh the estate agent listing said “Offers over £235,000”, the home report value was £245,000 and my offer that was accepted was £258,000. So I had to have spare cash of £13k in addition to my deposit for the mortgage.

It’s just been especially annoying in the last few years because the market has been bonkers and nobody really knows what to bid! Also there’s been so many people that have loads of excess cash that can make offer 10%, 20%, 30% over the home report value.

I think actually doing offers over in England/Wales would be even more of a pain because you don’t know how much the bank are prepared to lend on until the offer has been accepted!?

Offers in Scotland aren’t as binding as they used to be - solicitors will include “subject to XYZ” in the offer letter.

I do also think buying/selling flats in Scotland is easier because of the lack of leaseholds? When I sold my flat in England it took ages because the freeholder had to supply a pack?

(I’ve bought and sold in both England and Scotland for reference).

offers haven’t been binding in Scotland for at least 40 years

I wish there were sales packs where the seller provided survey, searches, propert information forms, EPC etc so buyers could see things upfront. It was 8 weeks before our buyers sent a surveyer round and I was holding my breath waiting for them to gazunder us the whole time (they didn't, they were surprisingly rational despite what people say about FTB these days).

We had our survey and searches back quickly but it was just over 9 weeks before our solicitor sent us the property information forms. We already knew about the extension approved for next door but if we hadn't searched the planning portal we wouldn't have known until 9 weeks in.

I agree and ‘cash buyers’ should have to prove they have the funds ready to go as soon as an offer is made.

Yes, we do, thank you for asking. A much better one it has to be said. It took over a year to find something, it's actually just across the road, I walk past the other house every day!

We dodged a bullet with it. The sellers put it back on the market 18 months later and the people who bought it discovered lots of horrendous structural issues that wouldn't have shown up in a survey.

Re the French system:
@draxdomax What if you make your offer, put your deposit with the solicitor (and presumably locked into the purchase?) and then don't get the price you needed for your own sale? In terms of a chain, how is what you have outlined different from the English system when in a chain?

@Lockthedoorbehindyou with the one notary-gather in the office system, again, what happens if there is a big chain? Is that one notary for all sales and purchases? And what happens if you are selling 400Km from where you are buying?