Page 14 | It's a Buyer's Market: experiences in 2023/2024 ?

wheretolivehelp · 2023-09-14T18:26:55+00:00

Just wondering what other buyer's experiences have been like on this side of 2023? Any horror stories? Issues with sellers? Guzumping? Guzundering? Problems with EA? There's a few threads with Seller's experiences on MN (many saying their buyer can't afford the mortgage for their (overpriced?) property and so re marketing them). What good and bad experiences have you had as a buyer? Hope this thread will be useful to the buyers of 2023 and 2024!

Wanderergirl · 13/10/2023 23:22

wheretolivehelp · 13/10/2023 19:03

hahaha I see this all the time. the garden shed sq footage is added to the total 😂

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Technically you can sit in the garden shed if needs be. Some even might advise it as an office space lol Buyers need to be more creative with the space, remember?!!! Not sure how parking space can be used though, apart from parking a car. But would be keen for some advice from mumsnet.

Jinimcoroneo · 14/10/2023 02:18

RidingMyBike · 13/10/2023 13:47

It's context though, isn't it? You grew up in a different country where there are different norms. And it sounds like quite a well-off existence? England has a very different housing stock for historical reasons.

I grew up here in a house with one of these 'box rooms' as a child's bedroom and that was the norm. And one bathroom. It was fine. I never did homework in my room, just did it downstairs. And one small fridge in the kitchen . What are you storing in the fridge to need an enormous one for two people?!

It was a massive improvement on how my parents and grandparents had grown up - six children in a two bedroom house. So two double bedrooms for six children and two adults. And the grandparents didn't have a bathroom, just a tin tub used once a week. The toilet was at the end of the garden and shared with neighbouring houses... That was normal life for a lot of people and not that long ago either. So a 3 bedroom house with a small third bedroom and a bathroom inside would have been considered luxurious.

But I do think it would be sensible for EA to market houses on the basis of square metreage rather than number of bedrooms.

Yes, I do come from a wealthy family but I had plenty of friends who didn't, and they all had their own bathroom as teenage girls. Granted America is a bigger land mass therefore there is more space to build and more space between buildings, but the quality in the UK is still quite shocking in my experience, especially when you look at the cost per square meter and I'm not talking about London, London is a different beast entirely. As for the fridge, we meal prep and cook food for the week ahead of time. We are also both vegan which means whenever we find something we like we buy it in bulk to freeze bc it will likely be out of stock for the next few months. Either way, a mini fridge in a cupboard is pretty common here and that is not normal and it's not like there isn't space for normal sized things, developers get away with putting in small, low quality appliances and people just accept it. I might be wrong but my partner is British and he says the same about UK housing stock. Out of 100 properties on right move maybe 1 is actually nice and well finished and I still feel like that's being generous.

KievLoverTwo · 14/10/2023 02:26

@Jinimcoroneo your partner is spot on. About 1 in 100 is the number I would consider buying.

Have you seen some of the problems in my 'tea and sympathy' thread? The number of them and potential associated costs has been a real eye opener. Quite shocking really.

The other thing folks need to bear in mind re a lot of the States and fridges is that a lot of people drive a long way to do their shopping. So stocking up is a necessity.

I have yet to see a new build in the UK, even ones with larger kitchens with an American FF. It's grim.

Pemba · 14/10/2023 05:23

@Jinimcoroneo I'd say that a private bathroom for each child is absolutely a luxury, I would suggest your friends came from wealthier families that you think. Their families must have been very 'comfortable' at least to afford that. I think even in the US it is not usual to have one bathroom for each bedroom? (this from reading North American property listings).

Very true that of course there is far more land available in North America. And also that a lot of UK housing stock is quite old, so bathrooms, Central heating etc has often been added on later. Many older homes are so full of character though, and very solidly built. I wonder where all the older houses are in the US and Canada as they seem relatively rare? I suppose rebuilding is a lot more common. Is it maybe because many older North American houses seem to have been built of wood, and so don't last? The style looks gorgeous though, those cute wooden houses with the porches at the front where people sit out!

Pemba · 14/10/2023 05:40

But actually to be fair there is a lot of crappy housing in the UK alongside the more charming Victorian or Georgian properties.

And so many new builds having such tiny rooms is infuriating.The developers will stage a show home with non standard small furniture deliberately to mislead buyers. Governments over the last few decades should have regulated and imposed minimum size requirements but of course profit is king. I read somewhere that in America new builds keep getting bigger but in the UK they keep getting smaller! Why do we put up with it?

TurquoiseDress · 14/10/2023 12:03

Changeychang · 13/10/2023 13:31

@TurquoiseDress

I actually disagree a room that 9'6 x 7 something foot is a double, although a small one.

But yes, agree with other points, we should adopt a European model that looks advertises by sq foot/metre of livable space. Interestingly, in some states in America bedrooms have to be a certain size and have a built in closet to qualify as a bedroom.

I think the key is test is whether you could fit a double bed in there and any other furniture

Sure I reckon a double bed would get in there, but occupants would be squashing around it to get to other parts of the room.

Plus I don't imagine you'd be able to get much other furniture to fit

DH saw a house like this a few weeks ago, 3rd bedroom had a double bed in it (as was very helpfully pointed out by the agent!) but there was literally no space to go round the bed or put a chest of drawers in

That house is on the market for £650,000 OIEO

We're zone 5 SE London

We've accepted an offer on our current home and so are searching for our onward purchase

The ways things are looking, I think we'll be pulling our property off the market in the next free weeks

I do feel sorry for our buyer, but there just isn't much on the market for 3 bed semis in our price range and we've basically seen most of the ones within a couple mile radius!

TurquoiseDress · 14/10/2023 12:08

Just to add I am not in any way trying to diss 3 bed semis which consist of 2 bedrooms + box room

I grew up in a house like this!

My parents paid £50,000 for a property just like this in zone 5 SE London in the mid 1980s

Their neighbours are now selling their similar properties for £700,000 and beyond

The mind boggles

And that's why we are not prepared to pay crazy money for this kind of properties

Of course the EA will always have justification for the price...as I said previously we'll probably jack it all in before the end of the year if we don't find anything right for us

AnotherForumUser · 14/10/2023 12:32

wheretolivehelp · 13/10/2023 21:45

wow, thanks for sharing. it sounds like a decent way of doing things and just shows how false advertising is deemed completely unacceptable to other countries, but not here in good ol' England, land of the rip everyone off wherever you can.

I understand the frustration with the floor plan... I rely on both the floor plan and square footage just because a lot of "homeowners" like to add ugly extensions and conservatories and I can figure out whether this space was well designed or not.

in the UK, people tend to add random rooms and extensions to "add value" even if they don't need it themselves. a lot of them look ugly, some are beautifully done. but most of the time, I wish they never touched the house and it doesn't always add value. e.g. conservatories with plastic roofs lol.

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While I agree with footage being more informative than the number of bedrooms are you seriously saying homeowners (no sarcastic quotation marks needed-if they own the home they are homeowners) should not extend, add conservatories or whatever because YOU don't like it? Even if it's ugly it's up to them. Many people are doing it for themselves and their needs not for added value or your petulant wishes. That new downstairs bathroom or bedroom in an extension could have been put in for a disabled family member. That you are whining that they should think about what YOU want shows your utter self absorption. When you do buy your own house are you going to refuse to do what you might need just because a potential whiny buyer in years time will whinge about that change.

Jinimcoroneo · 14/10/2023 17:38

KievLoverTwo · 14/10/2023 02:26

@Jinimcoroneo your partner is spot on. About 1 in 100 is the number I would consider buying.

Have you seen some of the problems in my 'tea and sympathy' thread? The number of them and potential associated costs has been a real eye opener. Quite shocking really.

The other thing folks need to bear in mind re a lot of the States and fridges is that a lot of people drive a long way to do their shopping. So stocking up is a necessity.

I have yet to see a new build in the UK, even ones with larger kitchens with an American FF. It's grim.

We are buying a modern new build and we had to put "change kitchen design to include American fridge/freezer" in our offer. The house is almost 3000 square feet and the kitchen has more than enough space yet the developer kept a very small one in there which most people seem to have just accepted. In our last house we also asked for an American fridge/freezer and my husband will now never go back :)

Jinimcoroneo · 14/10/2023 17:41

Pemba · 14/10/2023 05:23

@Jinimcoroneo I'd say that a private bathroom for each child is absolutely a luxury, I would suggest your friends came from wealthier families that you think. Their families must have been very 'comfortable' at least to afford that. I think even in the US it is not usual to have one bathroom for each bedroom? (this from reading North American property listings).

Very true that of course there is far more land available in North America. And also that a lot of UK housing stock is quite old, so bathrooms, Central heating etc has often been added on later. Many older homes are so full of character though, and very solidly built. I wonder where all the older houses are in the US and Canada as they seem relatively rare? I suppose rebuilding is a lot more common. Is it maybe because many older North American houses seem to have been built of wood, and so don't last? The style looks gorgeous though, those cute wooden houses with the porches at the front where people sit out!

Probably not a bathroom per room, but you would never find a 3 or 4 bed house with one bathroom. I would say that some American houses definitely aren't solidly built and prob wouldn't have lasted as long as some of the Victorian houses in the UK, but I think they have now started to embrace more solidly built houses. Also, building your own house is far more common as well, the house we grew up in was designed and built by us so it was made to suit our lifestyle. Sadly the chance to build your own house is not something many people will experience in the UK.

Original poster

wheretolivehelp · 14/10/2023 19:43

AnotherForumUser · 14/10/2023 12:32

While I agree with footage being more informative than the number of bedrooms are you seriously saying homeowners (no sarcastic quotation marks needed-if they own the home they are homeowners) should not extend, add conservatories or whatever because YOU don't like it? Even if it's ugly it's up to them. Many people are doing it for themselves and their needs not for added value or your petulant wishes. That new downstairs bathroom or bedroom in an extension could have been put in for a disabled family member. That you are whining that they should think about what YOU want shows your utter self absorption. When you do buy your own house are you going to refuse to do what you might need just because a potential whiny buyer in years time will whinge about that change.

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No I’m not saying whatever you’ve eluded to and taken personally. And yes People can add any ugly addition they like. Just don’t say you’ve added “value”. It’s not asking for much especially if it’s a moss infested plastic roof over a conservatory - that’s ugly.

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Original poster

wheretolivehelp · 14/10/2023 19:46

Jinimcoroneo · 14/10/2023 17:38

We are buying a modern new build and we had to put "change kitchen design to include American fridge/freezer" in our offer. The house is almost 3000 square feet and the kitchen has more than enough space yet the developer kept a very small one in there which most people seem to have just accepted. In our last house we also asked for an American fridge/freezer and my husband will now never go back :)

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I like American sized fridges too. We Brits need to stop thinking small, not that USA are some standard to follow ha!

but in my household we do a lot of meal prep so a big fridge (mostly a bigger freezer actually) is crucial for our lifestyle.

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Original poster

wheretolivehelp · 14/10/2023 19:50

TurquoiseDress · 14/10/2023 12:03

I think the key is test is whether you could fit a double bed in there and any other furniture

Sure I reckon a double bed would get in there, but occupants would be squashing around it to get to other parts of the room.

Plus I don't imagine you'd be able to get much other furniture to fit

DH saw a house like this a few weeks ago, 3rd bedroom had a double bed in it (as was very helpfully pointed out by the agent!) but there was literally no space to go round the bed or put a chest of drawers in

That house is on the market for £650,000 OIEO

We're zone 5 SE London

We've accepted an offer on our current home and so are searching for our onward purchase

The ways things are looking, I think we'll be pulling our property off the market in the next free weeks

I do feel sorry for our buyer, but there just isn't much on the market for 3 bed semis in our price range and we've basically seen most of the ones within a couple mile radius!

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Thanks for sharing. I totally understand why you want to pull your property off. What you’re describing is what the whole point of this thread is: Low quality or tiny houses for rocket prices. No thank you.

tiny houses belong on hippy YouTube channels. Not for normal people to live in.

i do hope you find something though and you probably will in time given the direction of this market, which is down imo. Maybe you could think about balancing this with renting for awhile if you sell? Not sure your situation, but best of luck

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Jinimcoroneo · 14/10/2023 19:53

wheretolivehelp · 14/10/2023 19:46

I like American sized fridges too. We Brits need to stop thinking small, not that USA are some standard to follow ha!

but in my household we do a lot of meal prep so a big fridge (mostly a bigger freezer actually) is crucial for our lifestyle.

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I Def wouldn't follow all things American, whenever I go back home I realise how absurdly massive the portions are, easily enough for 3 meals most of the time! That being said, some big things are def better. We meal prep too, having a large fridge/freezer is a must.

ButterMyParsnip · 14/10/2023 19:57

go.skimresources.com?id=470X1716091&xs=1&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rightmove.co.uk%2Fproperties%2F138765437%23%2F%3Fchannel%3DRES_LET&sref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mumsnet.com%2Ftalk%2Fproperty%2F4896260-question-for-property-buyers-seller-experience-in-2023%3Freply%3D129915700

Perfect example - thanks for posting it! That's a box room for sure.
I've seen so many three bedroom houses advertised, with the box room as 1.8 metres x 2.3 metres. LOL

This "box room" is the same size as our second bedroom in our old house, if I understand the measurements of the blurry floor plan correctly. It was a double but I had drawers and a Malm dressing table whereas someone needing wardrobe space would need two shallow wardrobes to comfortably walk around. Our actual box room was my DH's office but could have fit an elevated single bed on the left (with box over stairs for half the length of the bed) and the right side of the dooor was deep enough for kallax units. The bit in between would be the floor space the width of the door and length of the room.

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz12 · 14/10/2023 21:10

We've seen a few properties and made offers about 20% below asking to factor the highly probable 2024 price drops, rejected as we thought they would be, but not bothered because we're happy doing it on purpose to make a point. Our EA for these properties has gotten to know us and never says they won't accept it

Tbf you are being a little naive if you think these EAs aren't telling the seller (who they work for after all, they are the sellers EA not yours) that you are consistently under offering on the basis of something that may not happen

Original poster

wheretolivehelp · 14/10/2023 21:16

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz12 · 14/10/2023 21:10

We've seen a few properties and made offers about 20% below asking to factor the highly probable 2024 price drops, rejected as we thought they would be, but not bothered because we're happy doing it on purpose to make a point. Our EA for these properties has gotten to know us and never says they won't accept it

Tbf you are being a little naive if you think these EAs aren't telling the seller (who they work for after all, they are the sellers EA not yours) that you are consistently under offering on the basis of something that may not happen

it's already happening!!!

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Original poster

wheretolivehelp · 14/10/2023 21:21

@KievLoverTwo

I just checked out your thread on crappy crummy housing in the uk. it's a great thread. albeit depressing.

if anyone else wants to check it out, here you go: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/property/4918755-tea-and-sympathy-thread-whinge-about-your-home-without-asking-for-advice

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KievLoverTwo · 14/10/2023 22:01

wheretolivehelp · 14/10/2023 21:21

@KievLoverTwo

I just checked out your thread on crappy crummy housing in the uk. it's a great thread. albeit depressing.

if anyone else wants to check it out, here you go: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/property/4918755-tea-and-sympathy-thread-whinge-about-your-home-without-asking-for-advice

Edited

It's an awful thead. I was expecting to get a bunch of minor complaints. I never anticipated what people are having to put up with and fix.

It's made me feel quite down about the entire house buying process actually. Now I am yearning to live in a small complex of yurts.

Original poster

wheretolivehelp · 14/10/2023 22:16

KievLoverTwo · 14/10/2023 22:01

It's an awful thead. I was expecting to get a bunch of minor complaints. I never anticipated what people are having to put up with and fix.

It's made me feel quite down about the entire house buying process actually. Now I am yearning to live in a small complex of yurts.

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I've been feeling the same for yonks. House buying just seems so stressful and depressing when it needn't be. It also feels like it's just a UK problem too. Honestly, I don't even trust the "nicer" houses here, always wondering if a treacherous seller has hidden something sinister or the surveyor missed something.

I feel more and more annoyed at our country and government for the housing crisis we are in, not just the lack of homes, but the terrible conditions they're in.

I just feel like housing can be fixed, it's just a lot of greed and obsession with property makes people so illogical and crazy. They don't want houses built to make their homes go up in price. it's immoral. I also find it sad that so many people rely on their home for retirement. It's 2023 and people still do this? It baffles me.

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KievLoverTwo · 14/10/2023 22:22

@wheretolivehelp agreed. Our discussions about leaving the country are becoming more frequent.

Thankfully we have no family ties so are privileged enough to be able to consider it.

Original poster

wheretolivehelp · 14/10/2023 22:35

KievLoverTwo · 14/10/2023 22:22

@wheretolivehelp agreed. Our discussions about leaving the country are becoming more frequent.

Thankfully we have no family ties so are privileged enough to be able to consider it.

me and my OH too! we are blessed to have the skills to go abroad and explore but we just are not sure where to start.

we thought we'd try the UK for a bit longer as it's home, maybe til 2025, and if we don't find the house we're looking for, we think we will try the expat life.
I've always wanted to travel anyway and might as well before i regret it. if i had more time off, I'd travel regularly. I miss my back-packing days and eating the world!

I know a lot of people talking about leaving the UK too, from all sorts of professions. personally, i think a lot of people who can leave, will leave... slowly but surely.

Younger people don't feel much hope here and why should we now with the more recent events.

the UK has so many issues and the government gets caught up with spending on bloody wars and attacks and it just makes this place feel so unsafe and outside of the housing topic, I'm not sure i even want to raise a family here anymore. i don't think any of us can trust any of these government parties going forward. they don't represent us, our family values, housing, not even peace.

We will probably look for the latter elsewhere.

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KievLoverTwo · 14/10/2023 22:37

@wheretolivehelp if you move to Ireland, you get EU citizenship after five years.

Original poster

wheretolivehelp · 14/10/2023 22:42

KievLoverTwo · 14/10/2023 22:37

@wheretolivehelp if you move to Ireland, you get EU citizenship after five years.

Believe it or not, I've never been to Ireland. I love the Irish too! They're the only sane people in the world right now .
Glad you mentioned it. I might add it to our list. But I was thinking more Asia as I love Asian cultures and foods and they are not as property mad (except for mainly Singapore, Korea and China). Malaysia and Malaysians are pretty great, really chill people, but also hard-working, but they value family and little things too.

If it's Europe, it'd be Catalonia or Portugal.

Are you and OH thinking of Ireland/EU?

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KievLoverTwo · 14/10/2023 22:50

I don't think I could cope with the weather in Ireland. I love the people, but Dublin is not a city I took to.

Short term, probably Germany. He lived there for 18 months and I was thinking about moving over when my mum got cancer, he had to move back to the UK to support me through that. He really liked it there but struggled with the language. I don't struggle with it at all. It's a beautiful country and the people are very sensible, level headed and extremely direct, we like directness.

Long term I am interested in New Zealand. However, today I see they have voted in a right wing coalition government.

Great. Just great.