It's a Buyer's Market: experiences in 2023/2024 ?

[wheretolivehelp]

Just wondering what other buyer's experiences have been like on this side of 2023? Any horror stories? Issues with sellers? Guzumping? Guzundering? Problems with EA?

There's a few threads with Seller's experiences on MN (many saying their buyer can't afford the mortgage for their (overpriced?) property and so re marketing them).

What good and bad experiences have you had as a buyer?

Hope this thread will be useful to the buyers of 2023 and 2024!

So the desirable properties that are selling quickly, that I referred to, are not overpriced?

It’s one of my pet peeves - a room only big enough to hold a cot or small single with nothing else is not a proper bedroom.

People can call it what they want but Buyers aren’t stupid and the fact it isn’t a proper bedroom will be reflected in the price they eventually sell it for. Sellers can’t expect to get the same price as “proper” 3 beds in the same area. They should know - they no doubt got it cheaper themselves when they bought it!

hi there, can you give some examples of these desirable properties you've seen that are selling fast?

because i don't see them... they are a rarity and if they're such good quality i'm sure a cash buyer nabbed them, which is great.

I haven't seen much movement of properties even the "desirable ones" and i've been keeping my eye on quite pricey expensive areas for the last few months. Wimbledon is a good example. House prices dropping there a lot, same types of houses that were being snapped up quickly in 2021/2 but now sitting on the market for months.

i also check when the house was last bought in Wimbledon and other areas. I've noticed quite a few were bought in 2017/8, some in 2020, and a good few have sold at a loss.

The range of information and data shows what is happening in the market. it is currently not true that the majority of houses are selling fast (there will be some, but it is now rare).

Banks have already published that they have approved way less mortgages than ever before, and this means far less buyers are actively buying. negative equity is a real concern.

don't be surprised if you get a callback lol.

I think it's always worth leaving offers on the table (and in writing) but that if the vendors are interested again then you'll re-review the price then in this volatile market.

My EA has sheepishly revealed that business has been a bit quiet for them. They're getting viewings in and arranging open days lol, but either people aren't turning up or cancelling, or just not making offers.

For me personally, I will not pay asking, nowhere near it. I know other buyers are doing the same and it's spreading. Sellers have no choice but to make further eductions. A typical 3 bedroom house isn't worth the monthly repayments people are seeing. for a lot of people it's more than 40% of their income/take home pay and it's just too much.

hahah I call them storage spaces!
These are really just 2 beds with storage spaces.
And you're right. Buyers of today are not stupid.
It's ludicrous that a seller wants us to pay a fortune for these properties that are over-priced with high interest rates, esp if that buyer has 15-20% deposit.

Also, add on the council tax for these "3 bedroom" properties, when they should be lower for being what they are - 2 bedders. It's theft!!

Where I'm looking, these box room houses pay the same council tax as proper 3/4 bedders, makes no sense, and the cost is over £3000 per year.

That's expensive for a lot of people. Buyers are not just looking at mortgage repayments, but everything is factored in. Many are seeing that to buy a house today and adding up all the costs inc travel, they're left with little savings.

Technically for me anyway, it's cheaper to rent now.

More irritating when 'bedroom 4' is downstairs, 7' x 8' and just off the hallway. That's a bloody cupboard. At best, office space. Feeling aggrieved because I viewed one like that yesterday. They'd put the smallest desk I've ever seen in a little space under the stairs and called it 'study space.' Do they think they're making their house more appealing? It is delusional, infuriating and makes you look like someone who'll be an unreasonable prick to deal with.

We are doing quite a lot of viewings these days and the issue with some of the sellers who are selling flats in London are that they bought them at highs 2-4yrs ago. For example, We saw a small two bed garden flat in Kilburn (about 700sqf), asking price was 775k. It was nice but we thought it was seriously overpriced. The upon doing research we realized they bought it for 715k just a few years ago! So they are refusing to lower the price and it’s been sitting there since summer. I was looking at comparables in the area and realized a lot of nice flats in the area were sold for over 700k few years ago and now they are dropping in price. We feel bad for the sellers but they can’t expect the next buyers to take the loss for them… also considering the prices may drop further in near future. It was funny when we conveyed our thoughts to the agent. He sort of agreed with us that it’s overpriced but the sellers will not see reason unless they see an offer. That made us laugh…basically agent not willing to tell the sellers the truth and want to use offers to tell them where the market is. What a waste of time

If they're selling quickly where you live, it suggests there is still currently a good market for them. This market may not last until next year, or it might, so those buyers who are buying now are taking a risk if they're paying 2022 prices but might need to move within the next two years.

Same here @Onaladder (rural Wales). You can see how some people got over excited thinking that some places were going to gentrify (with no going back). Then they paid too much in 2020 or 2021, those places are not going to gentrify any time soon, and are now trying to pass on that mistake on to the next buyer by adding on 30k when prices are falling.

Don't let something like that put you off though. Scan around the local market taking into considerations the features of where you want to buy, and make a safe offer based on what you think it will be worth in the next two years (because that's the situation you might end up in yourself if you need to move). They can always come back to you if they change their mind.

@wheretolivehelp There's quite a few cottages in rural areas that are quite clearly 1 bedroom places where they've put a wall in so they can call it a 2 bed. I really don't care how many bedrooms there are. It's floor space that matters and we have a very strange system in the U.K of selling per bedroom, rather than square meters which is what it should be.

You do know that all of these are not new phenomena, don’t you? Why else would estate agents have the reputation they have? Buyers today are no cleverer or more careful with their money than buyers in the past. And sellers are mostly selling their HOMES. They haven’t designed some product specifically to rip you off. They’ve been living in a house with a tiny third bedroom — probably why they’re moving — and it was probably the best they could afford when they were FTB. When we bought our first house it was tiny and needed a new kitchen and a new boiler, but it had a big garden and a big bathroom, and we liked it. When we sold it, I like to think that we were in many ways selling a better house, but nothing was going to change the size of the bedrooms.
To read some people on here, some FTB (and it’s always FTB because anyone who is both a buyer and seller has already understood about the compromises that have to be made) think that a buyer’s market means that they should be able to insist on a mansion in perfect order.
The process is, view a house with an asking price within your budget. If you like it, even if there are some things you’d like to change, or some downsides that are outweighed by benefits, make an offer on it. If the sellers reject it, move on. If they make a counter offer, consider it and raise the price you are prepared to pay, but only within your budget. If that fails, move on and view some other houses. And if you can’t find a house that you like enough to make an offer on, keep looking. It’s not worth going for a house that you don’t actually like, and then moaning about the sellers as if they created the house and are forcing you to buy it.

Absolutely @NewFriendlyLadybird

Those of us who have been buyers and sellers understand that there are always compromises, even in the properties we end up choosing.

Different people can cope with different compromises. The trick is to view a lot in your price bracket, you will gain understanding about what is a good deal for you and what is a dealbreaker. Be prepared to view a lot of shit properties before you find the one you want.

I think it’s definitely true that some houses are over priced but not all so I would be wary of assuming that. My dd is currently looking to buy in SE London and I went to view two houses with her yesterday. One has been in the market less than a week and already has two offers, one over asking price. She was allowed to view it because they were honouring appointments made and presumably to encourage a bidding war. So if she wants it she’ll have to pay above asking. I spoke to the agent and they said the vendors had found their dream house and needed a quick offer to get theirs accepted so had priced on that basis.

the second house was on the market earlier this year and failed to sell. It was pulled off, repainted and is now back on at a reduced asking price - reduced to the level of the offer they rejected earlier. Unfortunately for them it is still overpriced by reference to comparables but the agent said that they won’t accept offers below asking as they’ve already reduced.

So on that very small sample there is one house that will sell in a week and another that won’t sell this year. There appear to be more of the latter but that’s only because they hang around on Rightmove for longer I think.

And in case it’s any help to anyone on this thread the agents I spoke to yesterday both thought that in their areas houses were generally going for close to asking unless the vendors were unrealistic in which case they weren’t selling at all.

yes, exactly this! thanks for sharing this.
sellers like these - it's a shame they bought too high - but they basically want the next sellers to take the hit when it's their own financial mistake. the next seller will be dealing with a probable housing crash and massive negative equity. anyone smart right now doesn't want that kind of risk.

Also, completely agree with the "offers" situation you describe. We've seen a few properties and made offers about 20% below asking to factor the highly probable 2024 price drops, rejected as we thought they would be, but not bothered because we're happy doing it on purpose to make a point. Our EA for these properties has gotten to know us and never says they won't accept it, I think secretly they need buyers to made huge discounted offers to help make their job easier lol.

What I've learnt is that EAs use these offers to document and prove to the seller they're being unrealistic. Personally, I'd love it if every buyer in the country made offers at 20% less the asking price, the outcome would be amazing lol

I've been a buyer and a seller several times over and do understand that the seller wants to market and present their house in the best light, and achieve the best price.

But there is a difference between optimism and deluded.

Buyers have had to endure several years of this wankery, when any old dump sold in hours for 'offers over' but the market has changed and I'm fed up of turning up at a house to feel like I've been catfished.

Vendors and EAs can do what they like I guess but what they can't do is stop the rest of us from laughing at their nonsensical marketing.

To read some people on here, some FTB (and it’s always FTB because anyone who is both a buyer and seller has already understood about the compromises that have to be made) think that a buyer’s market means that they should be able to insist on a mansion in perfect order.

No, you are reading wrong me thinks?

What buyers on this thread are saying is that they are sick of false advertising. Please don't confuse "making compromises" with false advertising.

If the third bedroom is a box room that is basically big enough for storage, then there is nothing in this world that you or anyone can say to convince me it is a "bedroom". Therefore, it should not be sold as a three bedroom house - that is incorrect and false advertising.

Maybe your standards are different from buyers today. The market has changed where people actually want value for money especially with the overpriced houses and they want correct descriptions of these homes on sale. That isn't much to ask, but clearly it is.

Just because you are a buyer and seller doesn't make your case more valid than others. FTB move the market along and are essential for the market.

This thread is very timely. We viewed a house yesterday and I'd say it fell into the overpriced, 90's decor category. It's a probate property too (not through yet) so the seller's don't seem to be motivated to accept any offers just yet. Problem is, it's in a desirable village so eventually someone may stump up full asking.

For us to get near asking, we need to achieve X on our sale, which will makes us look 'greedy' by not accepting anything under X. We go on the market this week. Luckily we are in the same desirable village and our house is completely up to date.

Fingers crossed.

thanks for sharing. I am guessing your current house is much smaller than the one you want?

many people are now just putting in what they think the house is worth so you could try that? that way, you won't have your own house overpriced on the market just to afford the next overpriced house. it's a bit silly right?

but i understand your in a village and guessing you want to stay in a village, so the options are slim(mer).

Yes, an extra bed room and bigger garden.

I am super tight, and happy to be told this. In my eyes I dont want to pay more than £50 to £60k to buy the house as it's in need off full decor refurbishment including a kichen. (Bathrooms are ok, just not my taste).

@wheretolivehelp ha ha ha ha ha! ‘False advertising’ from estate agents has been around from time immemorial — a small space reframed as ‘compact and bijou’ etc. It’s just part of how the business works and there’s no point in railing against it.

I’m not saying my case is more valid than yours because I am both a buyer and a seller — especially because I’m not at the moment. But I have been a FTB, and what I’m saying is that not much has actually changed, apart from the fact that Mumsnet didn’t exist then so no one had the opportunity to hype each other up into believing that they’re somehow different from the generations of FTB that went before.

False advertising has been around as long as EAs have existed @wheretolivehelp

At least these days most properties come with proper floor plans & links to comparable sold properties so Buyers can judge for themselves even before viewing whether it is likely to be false advertising or not.

I think it was possibly even worse in the past as without Rightmove you only had the estate brochure and they were often works of fiction. I remember going to view a flat in London which was in fact a garage, complete with up & over garage door.
One place I saw advertised recently as a 2 bed flat - the second ‘bedroom’ was 7’ x 4’ with no window! They would have been much better advertising as a one bed with great storage. It sold though - I don’t know what for.

A house is worth what people are willing to pay for it and sell it for. If it sells for a silly (high) price, then it was worth that to that buyer, if it sells low, then that's what the seller is willing to accept.
Offering 10% or 20% or whatever below asking automatically just because a market is falling is just stupid, I'm sorry, but it is. Some vendors may have already factored the market in when they fixed their price. In some areas the market has fallen very little. In other places prices are generally holding but it is just taking longer to sell. In other places houses in different price ranges are changing in price very differently.
And as yet, the average fall isn't anything like 10% in most areas anyway.

hi again :) it's not a hype. prices are actually dropping a lot, it's a fact right now. i think maybe since you've been a seller you don't see it as much?

also, social media is extremely powerful.

anyways, thanks for sharing.

I understand. wishing you the best, hopefully you get it at a fair price to you, and eventually to your own buyer. i think you probably would get it at a fair price tbh looking at the market. are they neighbours you know well? if so, leverage that! :) good luck

this is true, I agree. so thank the heavens for floor plans for us all to laugh at. especially the living room that's become a bedroom.