Sellers not removing items - saying it's 'sold as seen'

[Newusernameaug]

I'm a cash buyer, no chain but the sale has been ongoing since April (so the last thing i want to do is delay it further....)

We're very near completetion and so asked to view the house again last weekend to measure a few bits and pieces up.

The house has stood empy for all this time and nothing has moved since we first viewed, so I emailed the sellers via the solictor and asked what items they would be removing as I may be interested in buying some and would the house be cleaned so i can preapre for the move.

The seller has responded 'I have no intentions of entering the property again so I won’t be cleaning it or removing anything. In my opinion it is sold as seen, therefore all the items will be left in for the buyer to keep or remove'

I've only purchased houses twice before - but is this normal for people to just abandon anything that's left for the buyer to clear out?

There are some bits and pieces such as a large wardrobe etc I wouldn't mind, so do I just accept this? However there is also lots of junk left behind! Any thoughts would be welcome.

We had our survey today. I suspect there will be a lot of mentioning not being able to assess due to access issues - it's like a get out of jail free card for them - but we'll still be paying the full whack (£750 + VAT) Luckily DP is fairly knowledgeable and knowing its a doer upper it's more about a few specific potential issues which the surveyor should be able to check okay.

And if the building surveyor thinks there's an issue with plumbing, electrics cavity wall ties, damp, rot etc etc all they'll do is recommend getting a further specific survey for them - they are usually only qualified to offer an opinion on the fabric of the building.

Ring the estate agents, and tell them that you need to renegotiate before exchanging. The property must be emptied, cleaned and inspected before you are prepared to exchange. The market has changed, and they stand to lose a lot of money, if you were to pull out at this stage, as no new buyer would be paying the amount that you will be, if you agreed the price in April. There are a lot of re-negotiations going on, at the last minute, right now. And leaving the house full of crap that you don’t want, isn’t on at all. Even if they offered to take money off, it would be a nightmare trying to move in, if there’s a load of stuff in the house. It needs to go before you exchange. The estate agent will help.

I knew of one elderly person who had moved into a Care Home. Her house was being sold, and the buyer refused to exchange contracts until the house was empty of everything. This meant that instead of the usual time period between exchange and completion where items could be removed in stages, this meant that everything had to be emptied at short notice in just one day!

Make sure when you go in once completed that everything has been removed if agreed to. Rememeber to check the loft! we made the mistake of not going in our loft for ages then when we did we found loads…I mean loads of empty cardboard boxes from various appliances we had to get rid ourselves if we had looked before we could have charged them for leaving them there

We don't know how the two factors balance out against each other - it could go either way. But if it was a real hoarder's tip full of crap I'm sure she'd have mentioned it - it's presumably a normal home full of a normal amount of normal stuff.

I can safely say that my vendor's 'normal stuff' had zero value. Unsurprisingly she'd taken anything of value and left us with a five bedroom house to clear with every single cupboard and drawer filled with junk.

It is a big deal to be faced with a house full of crap. We'd been up through the night to leave our house gleaming. We walked into an utter crap hole. We couldn't unpack any of our stuff and the hoise was filthy (they'd even left empty bottles over the floor of the bathrooms). It took two weeks of skips and tip runs to clear it all. And, as I've mentioned, not ideal to leave a gun when small children are moving in.

How is that fair in any way? People seem to be imagining hidden gems but the reality tends to be very different. I'm still annoyed ten years later that she couldn't have spent some of the large sum of money we gave her on house clearers. (She was going into a home so had money from the house sale).

@grass321 that sounds awful

This happened to us. Mostly because we bought a house from a drunk elderly couple who refused to spend money and booked at least one too few removal vans. We told our solicitors not to complete when we realised the extent of what was left. They did anyway, saying we would have been in breach of contract by not completing whereas now the sellers were in breach of contract because it was supposed to be vacant possession and they failed.

all I would say don’t underestimate the cost of house clearance - it is massive. And hugely time consuming too. I would stick your guns!

I'm sure it could be awful.

In this case however the OP knows for a fact that there is stuff she actually wants and would be happy to pay for, and the vendor isn't going to be returning to the house at all, so won't have taken everything of any value, and the house won't be completely grim - it will be as the OP saw it at viewing give or take dust.

The balance depends on the value of the stuff she wanted and how cluttered the house is on the scale from minimalist show home (unlikely) to very cluttered but normal. Worth asking for a discount for the cost of clearance, but not the end of the world.

If the house is sold as seen they do not have to clear it. As others have mentioned above, house clearance costs can be high. I would get a quote for a professional house clearance service, add a premium to it and then let the sellers know that you will be deducting the costs from the purchase price due to the seller’s late change of position. If they had mentioned this in the fixtures and fittings form it would have been flushed out earlier. They may threaten to pull out but they are unlikely to - house prices are lower now and they clearly just want to get rid of the property if they have no intention of ever returning to it.

Also deduct the cost of the title indemnity policy from the price. You may be a cash buyer and not need the policy but when you come to sell your buyer will likely have a lender who will insist on the policy.

I was not aware that house selling ever was "sold as seen." Isn't that for minor purchases?
Is it written anywhere in the contracts that this house is "sold as seen" or has the vendor just made that up?

This wouldn't particularly bother me. Happened with our most recent house, we were aware a few things would be left. I inventoried it on completion, emailed solicitor, confirmed sold as seen then listed stuff for sale. Loads got sold and I skipped the rest.

It's not the cost of a skip, it's the effort of moving the stuff out, especially if you are trying to get your own stuff in at the same time. If seller is leaving sofas, beds etc, where is OP supposed to put her own stuff on move day??

OK in conveyancing there's no such thing as "sold as seen". The relevant factors are vacant possession and the fixtures and fittings form where the vendor should list what they want to leave. If the buyer doesn't want these things, it's up for discussion and negotiation.

About 30 years ago my mates dad bought a small terraced house full of old furniture/ junk, when smashing up an old wardrobe he found £1500 pounds hidden in the back of it . He only paid 14k for the house 🙂.

Sure the solicitor can read the form in front of them.

But the vendor ticking boxes on a form isn't the same as them actually complying with what they have agreed to leave/remove.

This is not normal, all items included/excluded should be on you list supplied by the solicitors. All houses should be sold in a clean condition, also in the terms.

If I was you, I would just let the sale go through as it is, and then when you move in, anything still in the house you don't want that isn't listed in the sale docs, take pictures of, take pics of the general cleanliness and go back to your solicitor, the seller will be liable for the disposal costs and can be charged for not cleaning the property. But like you say if you say it now it will delay it, do it officially once complete.

“Vacant possession” just means no one is living there.

As has been mentioned, no it doesn't.

Been to look at the house today and decided to just go ahead.

Yes the sellers are cheeky fuckers but they’re leaving a large ikea wardrobe, but top end one, a semi decent bed and new looking mattress, large corner sofa, 4 padded bar stools that are all worth keeping plus a small skip worth of junk so I’m just letting it go as if I try and negotiate anything or kick off the sale might not go through next week and this has been going on since April!

Been really helpful to have everyone’s perspectives, thank you, amazing how many CF there are!

Quite honestly I wouldn’t waste time trying to argue. Just get a house clearance company to sort it for you. I had to do this when we moved into our three bed house, got quotes of around £600. Sometimes charities do it for very cheap if they can keep all the junk to sell on.

Could try freecycle (local facebook giveaway pages) to get rid,too