Sellers not removing items - saying it's 'sold as seen'

[Newusernameaug]

I'm a cash buyer, no chain but the sale has been ongoing since April (so the last thing i want to do is delay it further....)

We're very near completetion and so asked to view the house again last weekend to measure a few bits and pieces up.

The house has stood empy for all this time and nothing has moved since we first viewed, so I emailed the sellers via the solictor and asked what items they would be removing as I may be interested in buying some and would the house be cleaned so i can preapre for the move.

The seller has responded 'I have no intentions of entering the property again so I won’t be cleaning it or removing anything. In my opinion it is sold as seen, therefore all the items will be left in for the buyer to keep or remove'

I've only purchased houses twice before - but is this normal for people to just abandon anything that's left for the buyer to clear out?

There are some bits and pieces such as a large wardrobe etc I wouldn't mind, so do I just accept this? However there is also lots of junk left behind! Any thoughts would be welcome.

From https://www.propertyinvestmentsuk.co.uk/vacant-possession/

What does Vacant Possession Mean?Transferring a property from one person to another is a process known as conveyancing. During the conveyancing process, it is the seller's responsibility (and their solicitor's) to draw up a legal contract covering all the details. This will include things like the agreed price, boundaries to the property, planning or legal restrictions - services like drainage and gas. It will also cover those items that should be left on the property, such as curtains or white goods.
It is in this contract that it will be stipulated whether the property will be sold with vacant possession. Vacant possession means the property must be clear of all residents (or tenants) when the sale is completed and contain only the physical items that have been pre-agreed to stay where they are.

Vacant possession means three things. At the point of sale...

1. The property must be free of people - whether they are owners, tenants or squatters - with the new owners, legally and physically, able to move in.
2. The property must be free of chattels like furniture or personal items. And yes, this applies to rubbish and items to throw away too. Chattels are distinct from fixtures, although that distinction can be blurry. The important thing is that what remains in the home needs to be pre-agreed and negotiated.
3. The new owner must have undisturbed enjoyment of the property - which means, to give one example, that it is not acceptable for the old owner to keep coming to the property to pick up more personal items after the sale has gone through. And to give another, more extreme example, a property can not be considered to have been sold with vacant possession if there is a legal obstacle to the enjoyment of that property, such as an already-existing compulsory purchase order, from a local authority.

Our sellers tried this on moving day. We got to the house while they were still packing and there was crap (nothing decent) everywhere, which they were planning to leave!

Our removal man offered to dispose of it for a cash fee and blocked the driveway while they went to get the money. Some people are just bloody chancers!----

At our one before last purchase the seller left loads of rubbish . We photographed it , paid for clearance and our solicitor sent their solicitor the bill . It did get paid because they had broken the terms of the contract . Your solicitor should be pushing on this . Because you could be left with a large clearance bill otherwise .

Look on the bright side: you know about the seller's intention not to clear the house in advance. Often, when this happens, the buyer doesn't find out till they arrive at the property, post-completion.

I would not trust your seller to empty the property, OP, so you need a plan in case they don't. Your solicitor needs to ensure that the seller will bear the costs, if you end up having to clear the house.

There were some things left at my mums house. I was hundreds of miles away. The estate agent gave me the number of a house clearence place and cleaner. £80 for the clearence and £120 for the cleaner. Had a lovely note from the new owners saying how grateful they were that it was so clean for then to move into.
They are taking the piss.

The issue is the form hasn't been completed so there is no legal recourse

Great!

And that form needs to be completed.... or else no legal recourse

Our house was left like this, we didn't know it would be. It was mental. 4 skips, hours of sorting. Not to mention moving day, we had to put all our stuff in one room to move everything else. And it was filthy! We got a few nice bits of furniture, that's all! The owner had died, not very old, no children, will split many ways so it was just left.

But we love the house, so for us it was worth it. Painful as it was!

Side note, we still call somethings the old owners, such as a side board ' oh it was Linda's!'

The other upside is that the owner isn't in situ so the OP already knows the worst - it's not going to be any worse than it was when she last viewed (give or take some cobwebs and whatever's in the loft). It's far from unknown to get to the house on moving day to find that it's been lived in but hasn't been cleaned at all in the three months since you last viewed it.

Yep, I've just coughed up a discount as I was unable to clear a garage (it was a late surprise to find stuff in it & I live 4 hours away) .

I've also sold a house with all the contents but buyers wanted the stuff.

Do a pre-exchange viewing.

When my family moved to a new house a year ago, we booked professional cleaners to carry out a deep clean of the house we were buying on the morning of the sale. They sent in a team of four cleaners who spent about five hours in the property before all our furniture was delivered by the removal company. It made the whole move so much easier and all the beds and furniture went into clean rooms.

If they have signed the standard contract it normally requires that the property be empty apart from anything listed in the TA10 form. So legally you could sue for the cost of removing the items. However if they havent signed a contract yet then they can specific what they want and you negotiate a price reduction or not.

Sounds like they are pretty fed up and just want it over with, the sort of thing people do if they are unhappy with their purchasers.

The OP has posted twice, saying that the form was completed, and doesn't mention any of the things that the seller now intends to leave.

Oh god I'm an idiot lol.

OP - yep just have to like it or lump it.

Now you know they are leaving the stuff, nothing you can do.

I'd be very annoying with the solicitor. Surely its THEIR job to be advising and saying this is contrary to the fixtures an fittings form?

Don't underestimate the time and cost to sift through what you do/don't want, organising a house clearance, paying for a skip and then the cost of specialist removal if needed. Our current home was sold as being vacant and cleared. It was probate and empty many years. Despite them clearing it using the largest skips I've ever seen- we were still left with 50+ tyres in the garden to get rid of (buried or hidden in the overgrown garden), sheets of asbestos which had been buried and multiple other crap.

I'd try to negotiate money off for you to clear it, or they pay for a clearance. I honestly don't think a few wardrobes are worth it! Do have another look though and compare the costs. Don't forget lots can be hidden in the loft and shed!

When my FIL died his children arranged with a charity that they could take everything they thought they could sell . In exchange they wouldn't charge for doing it and they woukd also take 20 black bags of rubbish. Worked very well. You may find some treasures in amongst the crap

I don't know how long ago this was, but it's very hard to get free house-cleaning now. The value of second-hand furniture has plummeted, meaning that charities and businesses can't cover the costs of disposing of the non-saleable stuff.

Oh damn. It was 6 years ago. How times have changed

Freecycle it. Or sell it.
We got rid of a bunk bed frame, and wardrobe and dressing table. Someone with nothing ended up with some furniture. Don't ask about the garage full of junk though.

This happened to me but I didn’t find out until I moved in. The seller was still moving things out of the garden, I asked when they were coming back for the furniture (a double wardrobes, 6 bedside tables, four desks, a cupboard) and they said the estate agent should have told me they were staying! To be fair everything was in good condition and I made hundreds selling it on Gumtree. Could that work for you?
They also hadn’t cleaned the house for a long time, possibly when I viewed it months previously. But I think that’s pretty normal and I wouldn’t go out of my way to thoroughly clean a house that is likely to be painted and have carpets changed etc.

The confidence with which some people post completely inaccurate legal advice on Mumsnet never ceases to surprise me!

See also medical advice.