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Original poster

1930s house told partial wiring needed...but worried about Artex ceilings

26 replies

Greenwitchhorse · 23/08/2023 06:35

I recently bought a new house, mid 1930s mid terrace house, and had an electrician come to have a look at the electrics before I move in

He initially said the circuits were fine after testing but suggested installing a new fuse box to bring things up to date.

Then at the last minute he noticed something after pulling out some of the cables that are attached to the fuse box and started opening wall sockets. Tt turns out that some of the sockets would need some earthing work. So he suggested a partial rewire of the house which will take a week. He quoted about £3000.

I was OK with that, but now on reflection I am now worrying about something else: the ceilings have some of that swirly designs on them and due to the house's age they could contain some asbestos. So I am concerned the work could disturb it.

The electrician made no mention of it as being a concern when he did the testing yesterday and talked about the work needed but I woke up in a cold sweat worrying about this possibility...

Has anyone had to deal with this type of issues?

I am planning on booking an asbestos survey at least and ask them for advice before doing any invasive work.

I wonder whether there are ways to do that rewire without disturbing/drilling the ceilings. (It is obvious some work has been done/would have happened on the electrics before over the years in the 80s and 90s...).

Any thoughts?

OP posts:
Clickncollect · 23/08/2023 06:40

Please please get a second and maybe every third opinion. I don’t have experience on electricals but I was recently quoted over 2k to replace my water system and it turned out to be completely unnecessary so luckily I’d got further opinions.

Original poster
Greenwitchhorse · 23/08/2023 08:15

@Clickncollect

Yes, I was planning to get a second quote to be able to compare.

I bought on my own and I think some of the trades do take advantage of women that way still unfortunately...

OP posts:
Clickncollect · 23/08/2023 08:32

@Greenwitchhorse Sadly yes, I have to agree. It’s really frustrating when we just want honest opinions and pay a fair price for a good job!

iknowimcoming · 23/08/2023 10:50

I'm not an expert - disclaimer! Did you have a survey done on the house when you bought it? If so it should mention if the ceilings potentially were an asbestos risk, but unless the ceilings are original 1930s it's unlikely they'd have asbestos, the swirly artex you describe is more likely to be from the 80s ime.

Do you know any general builders (or know anybody who can recommend someone) who could take a look as that would probably be a lot cheaper and less invasive than an asbestos survey. But as pp said definitely get more than one quote for everything as not everyone is honest sadly!

TwigTheWonderKid · 23/08/2023 10:58

For about £100 you can get someone to come out and take a sample of the artex for analysis. If it comes back positive they should be able to advise you on what's safe. The kind of asbestos potentially in Artex is relatively low risk unless you did something like sand it down without a mask.

TwigTheWonderKid · 23/08/2023 10:59

iknowimcoming · 23/08/2023 10:50

I'm not an expert - disclaimer! Did you have a survey done on the house when you bought it? If so it should mention if the ceilings potentially were an asbestos risk, but unless the ceilings are original 1930s it's unlikely they'd have asbestos, the swirly artex you describe is more likely to be from the 80s ime.

Do you know any general builders (or know anybody who can recommend someone) who could take a look as that would probably be a lot cheaper and less invasive than an asbestos survey. But as pp said definitely get more than one quote for everything as not everyone is honest sadly!

80s Artex does/ can have asbestos in it.

Peony654 · 23/08/2023 11:00

We've just had a rewire with artex ceilings, the electrician just wore a mask when drilling through, he said it's really common. Then he hoovered up, and we've had the ceilings plastered over.

ClematisBlue49 · 23/08/2023 11:00

Electricians, along with any other professionals who may disturb the fabric of a building, are required to have awareness of asbestos risks and how to deal with them. So as long as you hire a reputable firm (check their website for the relevant Health & Safety / professional accreditations), you should be fine. But no harm in mentioning that it's a possibility when you get further quotes.

iknowimcoming · 23/08/2023 11:00

Apologies - I stand corrected!

Original poster
Greenwitchhorse · 24/08/2023 08:16

To update everyone I am getting a second opinion from another electrician and I have booked one of these sample surveys.

I had a carpenter/handyman in the house yesterday and I mentioned I was concerned about the ceiling.

He said ''these type of ceilings are so common in our (small coastal) town. Electricians and everyone else don't care...because they have such small asbestos content anyway (if there is any)'.

Maybe a bit too optimistic but that explains why the 1st electrician did not even seem bothered by it.

OP posts:
shibhon · 24/08/2023 10:27

Greenwitchhorse · 24/08/2023 08:16

To update everyone I am getting a second opinion from another electrician and I have booked one of these sample surveys.

I had a carpenter/handyman in the house yesterday and I mentioned I was concerned about the ceiling.

He said ''these type of ceilings are so common in our (small coastal) town. Electricians and everyone else don't care...because they have such small asbestos content anyway (if there is any)'.

Maybe a bit too optimistic but that explains why the 1st electrician did not even seem bothered by it.

just because some tradesmen are saying this doesn't mean it's true.

We bought a 60s house with asbestos in ceilings and were told by tradesman that it wouldn't be an issue. Remember when we were told asbestos wasn't an issue? We got it all removed safely.

Original poster
Greenwitchhorse · 24/08/2023 12:17

@shibhon

I simply mentioned that this is the attitude that many people take here...I don't necessarily share it.

Out of curiosity was it a big job and costly to remove?

OP posts:
FrustatedAgain · 24/08/2023 12:21

We recently had building work done and have artex which probably contains asbestos. The electrician and builder both mentioned it and said it would be fine and they had no issue working with it there, they said they aren't concerned about white asbestos, blue or brown an issue.

Plumpciousness · 24/08/2023 12:26

When our house was rewired the electricians didn't need to make any holes in the ceilings (apart from one, where we had an extra light fitting installed).

They did make channels in some of the walls for the switches.

I still sometimes wonder how they managed to replace all the cabling without making access holes everywhere. Assuming they did replace all the cabling...

SquashPenguin · 24/08/2023 12:34

Asbestos surveyor/ analyst here.

You don’t need to pay for a whole survey to the house if you’re only worried about the ceiling, you can scrape a bit yourself and send it to a UKAS accredited lab yourself. Should cost <£50. A survey will cost a lot more.

Artex (textured coating) does have a very low asbestos content, but that doesn’t mean an electrician or builder can make that call. The only people who can tell you for sure is a laboratory. If a tradesman wants to expose himself, that’s his problem, he doesn’t however have any right to create to dust in your house and potentially expose anyone else.

Changingmynameyetagain · 24/08/2023 12:45

When we had our house rewired the electrician (My FIL) did all the wiring under the floorboards, so the downstairs ceilings were wired from the bedroom floors above and he didn't need to drill into any ceilings at all. The walls were a different matter and they all needed replastering.

We do have asbestos in our house, the old plumbing has asbestos lagging, We had the whole house replumbed when we did our extension and left the old plumbing in situ and buried it in the walls. I know just to leave it alone and not to put any nails in the wall.

mindbogglingmaths · 24/08/2023 12:49

plumptiousness All the upstairs floorboards would have been out - cables are dropped down. I agree your walls would have needed replastering though if you had a full rewire.

OP £3k for a partial rewire is sadly the going rate and my brother who's an electrician says he's not bothered by artex ceilings either. I'd just get them plastered over.

shibhon · 24/08/2023 13:19

Greenwitchhorse · 24/08/2023 12:17

@shibhon

I simply mentioned that this is the attitude that many people take here...I don't necessarily share it.

Out of curiosity was it a big job and costly to remove?

We had it done as part of a full house renovation so I can't really give you details on that one particular job. It was throughout the house including boiler cupboard and even in the lino on the toilet floor downstairs.

UnfortunateTypo · 24/08/2023 13:24

I was worried about this, although the plasterer looked at me like I was nuts! We had our ceilings re boarded over and then replastered as I didn’t want to disturb them. If you are having the lighting circuit redone then they will be channeling out the walls to get to the light sockets. Be prepared for a lot of mess!

GPTec1 · 24/08/2023 13:31

SquashPenguin · 24/08/2023 12:34

Asbestos surveyor/ analyst here.

You don’t need to pay for a whole survey to the house if you’re only worried about the ceiling, you can scrape a bit yourself and send it to a UKAS accredited lab yourself. Should cost <£50. A survey will cost a lot more.

Artex (textured coating) does have a very low asbestos content, but that doesn’t mean an electrician or builder can make that call. The only people who can tell you for sure is a laboratory. If a tradesman wants to expose himself, that’s his problem, he doesn’t however have any right to create to dust in your house and potentially expose anyone else.

I ve a family home in England, with extensive use of cement asbestos sheet, 4 generations have lived here and plenty of panels have been broken drilled and smashed up, everyone lived long and healthy lives.... so far!!!

When i took it over, i had an asbestos firm to quote on removal, he said about 18k, then said why remove? because its dangerous! He said no more dangerous than working with MDF, the asbestos content is 4 to 6% and all the fibres are encapsulated in Portland cement, will only be released if the panel is burnt.

Use a FFP3 fitted mask if working with it, otherwise leave alone.

He said the stuff you need to worry about is any asbestos that is in its raw state, brown, blue or white (he did give the proper names too) i.e the stuff used in lagging and in fibre insulation board (Millboard) looks like hardboard but fiberous.

So was he talking nonsense or not?

SquashPenguin · 24/08/2023 14:36

@GPTec1 Saying the fibres can only be released when burnt is complete false. The asbestos content can be more like 20%. Whilst it’s true that cement is lower risk than a board or lagging material, fibres are still easily released if damage (like drilling or smashing up) is caused. You don’t want to be doing this! Cement can be legally removed from your home without a contracting firm, and most council tips will accept a reasonable amount provided it has been adequately wetted and wrapped.

People absolutely are still dying from the delayed effects of white asbestos, not just blue or brown.

GPTec1 · 24/08/2023 16:02

No intention of removing it, its best left undisturbed but i was interested in his views, i must make clear he said White asbestos is just as deadly as any other, just that in cement board its relatively harmless, i also used the same firm to remove some Milboard from a shed and he treated that as if it was Ebola!

Its just strange that Artex that can contain asbestos (of any type) is seen as no big deal by so many trades yet white asbestos cement board is considered deadly.

SquashPenguin · 24/08/2023 16:05

@GPTec1 it literally comes down to complacency. Cement is definitely not harmless. Scores of people who used to make the stuff in factories are now dead as a result. It’s very easy for a tradesmen to see artex or cement day in day out, think one little hole drilled will do nothing. No, one hole probably won’t, but do that over and over and you have a problem!

Fifiesta · 24/08/2023 16:30

We checked our artex for asbestos with a home kit & yes in 1984 it does have asbestos.
We have had ours over boarded, plastered and coved. It seems to have made the rooms warmer. Although someone may come along in a moment to say that’s wishful thinking…

Original poster
Greenwitchhorse · 24/08/2023 19:51

I should have mentioned that I am not adding any new lights. I am in fact asking them to remove some of them.

The survey is booked and it is just over a £100 so I am happy with that. I prefer someone come in so I can have a chat with them as well and they can see everything in situ rather than trying to get the sample myself.

Will take it from there and wait for the second opinion from the 2nd electrician as to whether a rewire is really needed or if other solutions can be found.

I have removed all the carpets already so the floorboards are easily accessible if needed.

Artex ceilings were in 80% of the houses I viewed in this town...

The flat I have been renting has textured walls and ceilings and this is a 70s building. Pretty sure that was drilled over and the electrics upgraded many times.

OP posts: