Cost of running a 2000-4000sqft Georgian or Victorian house?

[8ahwe]

Thinking of a move from a newly build house to a large detached Georgian or Victorian house, assuming single plane sash windows to the mners who own similar houses what does your gas/electric cost to heat the house and how high do you have the temperature?

At the moment we average £50 a month over the year and it doesnt drop below 23 degrees.

Thanks!

Whatever figures you get, you are going from what is probably the most energy efficient house possible to an absolute nightmare in terms of energy consumption.

They really are at completely opposite ends of the scale and you are probably going to either spend vast amounts of money on energy, or vast amounts of money on modifications to reduce the amount of energy you use.

I would want that very much reflected in the purchase price.

If you need 23 degrees heat 24/7 it might be cheaper to move to a warmer area!

That's so hot, I would be sweltering.

Thanks again everyone, I'll see if I can get the EPC. The house we are in now is very energy efficient, it hardly needs any heating and we walk around in t shirts etc all year around.

The temperature isn't that bad, it's 26 inside at the moment but that's because it's warm outside. It feels fine.

My worry is it's going to be a massive shock and as we pay almost nothing in gas for heating we just don't have to worry about heating at all.

It's going to be a big shock for you, I'm in a Edwardian terrace with early cavity walls that isn't as expensive to heat as semi/detached and our electricity/gas is £150 a month. That's on 17/18 and the heating isn't on all the time. It isn't a warm house, it could be worse - being a terrace and the walls help, it's always cold and I wouldn't move from a new build to a large period house if given the choice. They are also far more prone to damp than newer houses. Living in a period house has It's great in the summer on the north facing side, very hot on the south facing side. I wouldn't get a wood burner either, they are lovely but they are terrible for air pollution in general and your indoor air quality won't be great
https://www.cleanairhub.org.uk/clean-air-information/the-basic-information/wood-burners

We have an 1600 square feet early Victorian maisonette and an open fire

To keep it at 20 degrees it cost £450 a month for gas and electric

find-energy-certificate.service.gov.uk/find-a-certificate/type-of-property
You can use this link to see if the property has a current EPC if you are in England or Wales.

Ah, EPCs. I might as well look at a house from the outside and pluck a figure out of the air. Some of the things that are wrong with EPCs:

• No regional variations. You could be 3000 metres up a mountainside in the North and fully exposed, or at sea level, far inland in the South, and they'd use the same weather calculations.
• They don't test ANY systems. For example, they don't tell you that a central heating system or boiler is absolutely forked and will cost you two, three times as much. It's all about POTENTIAL.
• Materials? Bleurgh. I'm sure there's a box to tick for underfloor heating, but does the assessor account for the fact that they're under inches of stone in my current house, and that it takes five hours for the heat to break through? Then they retain and build up the heat, get so hot you can't stand on them, have to be turned off (they take 48 hours to cool down), then you have to start the entire process again from scratch. It's no good saying 'just keep it on low all the time' if your flooring builds up so much heat that you can't stand in front of your cooker!
• The assessors pay 1k to go on a training course then get paid a pittance, basically minimum wage once you factor in travel and report creation time. I regularly see square metre measurements being 40% out, including for our current house, which isn't at all difficult to measure at all, because it's bloody square and straight up! There's no incentive for them to do a good job on their wage. Recent things I've read: 'the EPC assessor couldn't be bothered to go up in our loft so he just reported we have no loft insulation.' 'There was one doubled glazed window in the whole house so the assessor marked it as some double glazing (which increases the rating)'. And, on MN 'I went on an EPC course during lockdown. We were told at the start of the class that nobody here would not pass the test. Half the class barely had two brain cells to rub together. Everyone passed. It's an utter shambles.'

In my old house, we used the entire annual KwH heating/HW allocation in 4 months.

In our current house, the estimate should be circa 17,297 kwh per year; we actually used nearer 39,000 (see above re: terrible UFH).

Don't even take them with a pinch of salt to calculate your energy usage. Take them seriously if they say the EPC is an E, F, or G with little possibility to increase that rating (with the caveat that the older they are, the less likely they are to be able to factor in more up to date energy initiatives that can be used in some older homes these days).

/rant done

Average of about £600-700pm since prices went up, we have 2 fires (wood) in winter and it’s still never really warm if below 5c outside

It never gets above 18 indoors unless it’s above mid 20s outside

if you like 23c I’d definitely reconsider- personally I’d have a permanent migraine at that temp

1600 m sq Victorian

£100 pm gas and elec, heating 19° setting in winter

New combi boiler
Triple insulated loft
Double glazed windows bar 3 which are single glazed

2 open fires 1 blocked off

Room with open fire is cold in the winter unless it's on (which is a ball ache to clean) 🤣

I've told this story on here before but I grew up in a Victorian house and one Christmas I was given a digital clock which contained a thermometer in it. I set it up in my room, and on Boxing Day morning greeted DM with the information that it was 8 degrees in my bedroom; 3 degrees warmer than a fridge.

You cannot overestimate how difficult and expensive it is to keep a high ceilinged, draughty, single glazed Victorian house warm. We sold it after mum died and she complained back then about how much it cost to heat (the thermostat was kept at 21 throughout the winter and to my knowledge didn't once reach it). It will cost a lot.

We heat a 2400sqft 1930s property to 17 degrees during the winter using a 3yo boiler, and this year it was costing us about £220 a month in gas. I would at least double that (possibly treble it) for a Victorian house of a similar size - and it's likely you'll still be cold.

We have a big Victorian detached house, thankfully with double glazed windows.

The house never felt warm even though it was set to 20 degrees, we have now had a new boiler and central heating system installed, so hopefully it will warm up.

We are getting multi fuel stoves installed in October for the snug and sitting room and a bio fuel stove in the kitchen/diner.

Over winter are bills were £500 a month.
I love the house so would never leave.

I would say mine is about right.

Probably because they have a database of houses of similar size and typical usages and just put the number in with various modifiers for glazing, insulation etc.

I do see amongst my neighbours some variation in what are similar houses. But it doesn't appear to be more than a factor of 2.

So yes they are pretty inaccurate, and probably don't take enough stuff into account.

OTOH I would not say from my experience they are either great or awful, but somewhere in between. I guess it depends on how unique the house is, and new houses are probably easier to assess (or look up figures from builders) than old ones.

The EPC is F

Does it have a kwh usage per year on heating figure ?

With new builds, they'll take the plans from the developer for the assessment I think.

When a new build reaches 10 and if a new one is done, they automatically drop down a bracket because they no longer have that paperwork available to them, so a B could become a C because a lot of things have to be assumed.

@8ahwe F? Ouch. What does it say the maximum potential rating is? (and which year was it done? They last 10 years).

The useage is estimated to be

• 37,472 kWh per year for heating
• 3,011 kWh per year for hot water

It could be a "D" but that isnt going to work as the building is listed so I can't see them accepting external wall insulation.

it was done in 2023

Yowzers.

So with gas at about 10p a kwh that is £4k per year/£330 per month.

Assuming it is correct of course. My guess is that that wouldn't keep it at a toasty 23C either.

Certainly an important thing to think about. If it is listed I would be further concerned because a) improvements are hard and b) any improvements you can do are likely to be a lot more expensive.

I think you're asking a short-term question.
It would make more sense to ask how much it will cost to get it up from an F ie. put in double glazing and decent loft insulation, and possibly even solar panels if the roof is in decent nick.
It's going to be a massive shock otherwise. Victorian houses are cold.

120 year old Edwardian house with cavity walls where the gap is so small so can't insulate....300 per month all year but we now have double glazing throughout. When we didn't, the windows needed daily wipe down and were always mouldy. Iced up in the winter, couldn't open easily as original wood swelled with water.

Even with dbl glazing, it can take a couple of hours to heat up in the morning.

The windows were the such a constant pain and would never buy single glazed again. Husband constantly suffered with asthma until replaced. Have a wood burner which makes the lounge very cozy.

I stay because DH loves the house and is in a great location.

And hallway rarely gets above 18 degrees in winter

Oh, shit. That's really high, and you should probably double it.

I'd be surprised if you can heat that for under 8-10k per year.

Also, re: listed, please read my conversation here:

Ctrl + F BarrelLegs · 11/08/2023 12:13

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/property/4867972-the-ulez-of-rural-life?page=3

Her 110k quote on her listed building was just for the windows.

Mine is a high D and it still isn't a warm house, Edwardian terrace. F could be pretty cold. If you like warm houses, a period house with an F rating is going to be a big change and I'm not sure you could get it to 23 even with heating on all day. It would cost a fortune.

The single glazing is the killer on Victorian homes. On no account even consider buying this house without having the funds to double or triple glaze throughout immediately. You'd need to work out what additional requirements are imposed by the listing so you can price it up reliably.