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Original poster

Help please. Neighbours proposed outbuilding. Anyone know about planning permission?

69 replies

fridaynight1 · 13/08/2023 00:37

I don't usually eavesdrop on my neighbours but it was a lovely afternoon, my family were all out doing their own thing so I thought I'd sit in the garden and enjoy a glass of wine, the sunshine and the silence.

I heard next door neighbour talking to a man (a builder I think) discussing a new outbuilding at the bottom of their garden. It's going to be huge. 6m x 6m. The full width of the garden and will pretty much take up almost half of the length of the garden. He wants to 'push' it out as big as possible.

The builder seemed a little taken aback at the size. Neighbour told him he would not be applying for planning permission as it would take to long. Told the 'builder' he would only be required to build 2/3rds of it this year - to keep it under permitted development rules and would want him to come back the following year and extend it.

We have low fences and shrubs separating our gardens and a 6m x 6m 'shed' is going to be very overbearing and probably a very big eyesore. I checked our deeds, our fence is shared and is a party wall. Can I stop this? Can he put it right up against our fence?
And can he even build something this size without planning permission?

OP posts:
washingsomuchwashing · 13/08/2023 13:15

Do you have neighbours? May be worth gathering support to object formally.

BoogLoaf · 13/08/2023 13:21

The problem is that the Council won't get involved just on hearsay, nothing has happened yet, they certainly wouldn't come out to investigate at this stage, from personal experience they simply haven't got the resources.

Accessing our local planning dept was all automated, it ultimately tells you to put all the details into an on line portal, but without the details it was impossible?

We had to wait until it had actually started to be built.

Original poster
fridaynight1 · 13/08/2023 13:59

This was taken last year. Our two borders kind of merged into one. He has removed everything on his side and all that's left is rotten 3 foot fence panels and lots of gaps. I can't take a photo right now because he's out there chopping.

DH is not very well at the moment and it's just another thing I could do without right now.

Paying for a new fence is not something we can afford. I'm actually fuming that he's not said a single thing, he's just cracked on with it.

Help please. Neighbours proposed outbuilding. Anyone know about planning permission?
OP posts:
tanstaafl · 13/08/2023 14:13

I remember reading there was a 30sq metre limit on permitted developments, over that and you’d need pp.

You also need pp if there’s a provision for sleeping there as it’s then considered a dwelling.

Height is probably your main concern OP?

gogomoto · 13/08/2023 14:19

As long as it isn't being used as a bedroom or a business you can build legally in you garden without planning permission up to a certain %. It sounds perfectly legal from your description. If you want to use it for sleeping or commercial (other than home office) you need council permission but it's likely ti be granted

gogomoto · 13/08/2023 14:21

And we only gave our neighbours the heads up after we had permission and a start date when i extended, it was a courtesy not asking for interference

Bin85 · 13/08/2023 14:24

Can you message me please?
I can't see how to do it.
Thanks

Original poster
fridaynight1 · 13/08/2023 14:33

I think he wants it to be 6x6 which is 36 and takes him over the 30sqm rule. Hence wanting to do it in 2 phases.
As pps have said, it’s going to be very difficult to prove his intention to the council. There won’t be anything for them to see and of course he will probably deny he is going to make it bigger in the future.

The height is a worry but I think I can manage that one with a few carefully place trees and bushes. Fortunately, our garden is west facing and even the tallest of trees in this border won’t put us in the shade. His garden will be the one in the shade.

OP posts:
BoogLoaf · 13/08/2023 14:46

Is now a good time to have a friendly 'by the way' chat about putting a fence in, and while your chatting try to find out what his intentions are?

Your garden is lovely and mature so it might not impact you??

BoogLoaf · 13/08/2023 14:48

Maybe from a security point of view...just thinking of an excuse to chat to him!!

FireflyJar · 13/08/2023 15:34

So, not to worry you, but we have had two families recently both moved in to our road. They have both built huge garden structures, and I believe one has moved family members from Poland into it. I have seen them come in and out of the gate that leads on to parkland, and there are children there too. Do you think this applies to your new neighbour?

Original poster
fridaynight1 · 13/08/2023 15:59

No I don’t think he intends living in it or have anyone else live in it either. They both seem nice. They are in their late 60’s and recently retired so I’m guessing it’s their downsize forever home. I think he just wants to tinker in his man cave.
Although downsize is not quite the right word after all their building work it will be a big house.

He has probably been planning his retirement for years and is single minded in making his dream happen.

I feel a bit bad objecting but I also have to remember that he’s potentially going to create a massive overbearing eyesore that devalues my home. Plus it will probably be illegal. Need to give my head a wobble and say something.

They have gone out so nothing happening atm.

OP posts:
Rollercoaster1920 · 13/08/2023 16:00

I would be very wary. Especially about potential encroachment. He will probably v want to build the structure as big as possible, which may include taking the fence down.

I'd suggest a polite and friendly letter introducing yourself, and put in writing the boundary situation (position and ownership). In fact take measurements and photos now.

I've had a bad neighbour who wanted to take done of my garden. It's not nice. I'd even suggest you get a 2m tall fence installed ASAP to mark the boundary.

Datafan55 · 13/08/2023 16:05

You could strike up a conversation about the fence being revealed as quite poor and that you're just about to book a visit for a quote.... And see if he says anything?

Original poster
fridaynight1 · 13/08/2023 16:09

I’ve been out and taken lots of photos. I have a couple of trees that are right up to the boundary - they would have a job pinching even an inch of my garden. Plus I work from home so I’d spot any underhand tree chopping.

The extension worries me a bit too so I’ve taken some of the house too.

I’m mindful that even nice people can turn if you stop them from getting what they want. Everyone is being very nice to each other at the moment.

OP posts:
Original poster
fridaynight1 · 13/08/2023 16:12

Datafan55 · 13/08/2023 16:05

You could strike up a conversation about the fence being revealed as quite poor and that you're just about to book a visit for a quote.... And see if he says anything?

Yes I’m going to do this. The concrete posts are fine, we just need panels. I’d prefer keeping the fence low and growing a few shrubs rather than big 6 foot panels. If he wants big panels we would have to get new taller posts too which would up the cost.

OP posts:
johnd2 · 13/08/2023 16:12

I think you're missing up building regs and planning.

Planning is concerned with effect on the neighbours and He can build up to half the area around the original house with outbuildings which can include any front garden, driveways, side paths and the lot. So it's hard to exceed that.
The important one is height, it has to be below 2.5m to the highest point from the highest surrounding ground level.

The 6x6 rule is actually building regs, he would need building regs if it was bigger than 15m2 if it's timber,or 30m2 if it's block work. Building regs are concerned with insulation, foundation depths, resistance to damp and moisture, security, accessibility etc etc.

The one to focus on is planning, unless you're expecting it to fall into your land or some other failure of performance.

Good luck! It's unnerving when someone moves in and start to do all sorts when you're used to the status quo

BoogLoaf · 13/08/2023 16:13

It's hard isn't it, you want to stay friendly but not be taken for a mug. Some people just take advantage of you're too nice x

bellac11 · 13/08/2023 16:20

Surely its just a glorified shed, what building regs would be needed for that?

I have no faith in reporting anything to the council, our neighbour put up a massive high fence, higher than the height thats allowed (cant remember it now) and it blocked light to our kitchen, council not bothered.

Original poster
fridaynight1 · 13/08/2023 16:25

He knows his 6x6m shed is too big and needs planning permission but he doesn’t want to wait for planning. He wants to crack on straight away. So to get round it from what I gathered, the plan is to:

  1. build a shed at just under permitted development size 30sqm. ( I will keep an eye on roof height)
  2. apply for planning permission for his extension
  3. build extension
  4. get the builder back to make his shed bigger - but only after extension is built and signed off
OP posts:
Laughingravy · 13/08/2023 16:30

If I've read this right he's putting an extension on the house, a wooden shed in the garden and a 6m x 6m building in the garden. All this while downsizing!
Personally I'd be concerned what exactly he'd be doing in such a huge building and that he can't be bothered with planning.
Maybe ask planning like you want to do something similar and see what they say, forewarned is forearmed.

z465757 · 13/08/2023 16:50

The neighbours at the bottom of our garden had an extension without mentioning it to us and it goes across the whole width of our garden, very close to our fence (their house is at a right angle to ours, so the back of their house is where our garden starts on the left, and the extension goes out to the right side of our garden). As it’s close to the fence and high it looks awful - and we already have a 6ft fence so can’t even change the fence to improve our view. We had a lovely view of hills and the skyline before and the extension has blocked much of this.

ClematisBlue49 · 13/08/2023 17:15

Sounds like they didn't have planning permission, as I would expect adjoining neighbours to be written to by the council. If there are any windows overlooking your garden, those would be against regulations.

nevynevster · 13/08/2023 17:56

fridaynight1 · 13/08/2023 13:59

This was taken last year. Our two borders kind of merged into one. He has removed everything on his side and all that's left is rotten 3 foot fence panels and lots of gaps. I can't take a photo right now because he's out there chopping.

DH is not very well at the moment and it's just another thing I could do without right now.

Paying for a new fence is not something we can afford. I'm actually fuming that he's not said a single thing, he's just cracked on with it.

Why not take a photo of him clipping. He can know you re monitoring, in fact it may be helpful

Diyextension · 13/08/2023 18:57

He would be better off applying for pp for the garden structure that way he could build it all in one go and make it taller too.