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Original poster

Restoring NDN's side access - walkover or win-win?

57 replies

moodoperator · 25/05/2023 22:22

We moved into a semi a couple of years back. Non-attached NDN has been there for 30 years plus and extended out into the garden and sideways out into their side of the alleyway, thereby removing their own side access. They’ve also run their fence 3 panels back into the alleyway which has had the effect of restricting the width of our access to less than 60cm.

We could do with the access being wider as we might be doing some work in the back. They could also do with restoring their side access, although the obvious point that they should have thought about that before they extended to remove it is not lost on us.

We get on with them well enough but can’t tell if we’re being walkovers, short-sighted or just behaving reasonably to achieve a win-win.

Hopefully the diagram showing the changes in red explains the rest and you can see that some of our existing private garden space will become shared if we make the change. The gardens are long and wide enough so I don’t think we’ll miss the space we’re losing but we may well feel differently about that when it’s too late.

Also with the drain being there, there’s going to have to be some way of retaining access to it under a fence panel, not sure how that would work?

I don’t think paying for it will be an issue, I assume they will pay all costs. Also I'm wondering if a solicitor needs to be involved.

Thoughts please.

Restoring NDN's side access - walkover or win-win?
OP posts:
happinessischocolate · 25/05/2023 22:31

Thoughts?

You get a solicitor involved, you don't start drawing boundary lines on pieces of paper

MimiSunshine · 25/05/2023 22:33

I wouldn’t dévalué my own property by essentially making party of my land, communal space. I don’t see where the win win is here.

id be checking with a solicitor if the neighbours fence panels should be there and if not having them removed

Original poster
moodoperator · 25/05/2023 22:43

happinessischocolate · 25/05/2023 22:31

Thoughts?

You get a solicitor involved, you don't start drawing boundary lines on pieces of paper

Thank you, that's what I'll do

OP posts:
Original poster
moodoperator · 25/05/2023 22:44

MimiSunshine · 25/05/2023 22:33

I wouldn’t dévalué my own property by essentially making party of my land, communal space. I don’t see where the win win is here.

id be checking with a solicitor if the neighbours fence panels should be there and if not having them removed

Thank you

OP posts:
CuriousGeorge80 · 25/05/2023 22:52

I don’t understand why you would possibly consider doing this unless they are going to pay you quite a bit of money (not just cover the cost)? How is there any benefit to you, compared to unjust requiring them to move their fence back to their boundary?

CuriousGeorge80 · 25/05/2023 22:52

*just, not unjust!

NicLondon1 · 25/05/2023 23:45

I think if you just need the wider access temporarily for the works, you could ask if you could remove then replace their fence for that duration..? But first worth checking what width the builders would even require, it might be OK as it is

EdinaCrump · 25/05/2023 23:59

I can’t see from your diagram how it gives you wider access.

I see no benefit to you.

They need to get their fence removed as it likely contravenes the deeds.

Original poster
moodoperator · 26/05/2023 05:22

EdinaCrump · 25/05/2023 23:59

I can’t see from your diagram how it gives you wider access.

I see no benefit to you.

They need to get their fence removed as it likely contravenes the deeds.

Sorry that's not very clear of me, if we fitted the gates at the end, we'd remove the fence panels in the alleyway and the first gate so our access would the be over one meter wide all the way through.

I did ask the solicitor who did the conveyancing about the fence but it was after the sale but by then I'd already paid him so he never replied and I forgot all about it.

OP posts:
AWhaleSwamBy · 26/05/2023 05:29

When did they put their fence panels in? Are you sure they were allowed to? What do your deeds say. You might already have a right of access over that land

Original poster
moodoperator · 26/05/2023 05:30

CuriousGeorge80 · 25/05/2023 22:52

I don’t understand why you would possibly consider doing this unless they are going to pay you quite a bit of money (not just cover the cost)? How is there any benefit to you, compared to unjust requiring them to move their fence back to their boundary?

It's the first house we've owned so I have no idea how all of this works and where the fence should be. I'm glad I asked the experts, will now consult a lawyer! Thanks for replying.

OP posts:
Nebulia · 26/05/2023 05:54

Do you have a mortgage? If so I believe you would need to notify the mortgage company as it could change the value of the house, also by doing this you could be creating a right of way over your property which may put off buyers if you decide to sell later on.

I would look at whether their fence is allowed to be there, but I certainly wouldn't be entertaining allowing them to use part of my property because they removed their own access.

Original poster
moodoperator · 26/05/2023 06:03

Nebulia · 26/05/2023 05:54

Do you have a mortgage? If so I believe you would need to notify the mortgage company as it could change the value of the house, also by doing this you could be creating a right of way over your property which may put off buyers if you decide to sell later on.

I would look at whether their fence is allowed to be there, but I certainly wouldn't be entertaining allowing them to use part of my property because they removed their own access.

Yes we have a mortgage. After reading the replies I'm tempted to forget all about this, way more hassle than it's worth.

OP posts:
Goldbar · 26/05/2023 06:12

If they've run their fence into your part of the alleyway, then surely the best thing would be to ask them to remove it so your access is 1m wide again. The wall of their house will then be the boundary of your property. They won't have any side access but that was their choice.

Or am I missing something? It seems atm that they have a fence on your property. I'd ask them to move it before they gain any rights of use to the land currently fenced off by this.

Mirabai · 26/05/2023 06:15

If they extended widthways to the boundary, by the sound of it their fence may be on your land. Did you measure their extension to ensure that doesn’t encroach onto your land? 60 cms very narrow, was it only 120cm originally?

Mirabai · 26/05/2023 06:16

As to your changes I don’t see how they benefit you at all.

Mummyoflittledragon · 26/05/2023 06:16

Nebulia · 26/05/2023 05:54

Do you have a mortgage? If so I believe you would need to notify the mortgage company as it could change the value of the house, also by doing this you could be creating a right of way over your property which may put off buyers if you decide to sell later on.

I would look at whether their fence is allowed to be there, but I certainly wouldn't be entertaining allowing them to use part of my property because they removed their own access.

I very much agree with this post and would definitely check to see if they were allowed to fence their side in. It seems really petty that they restricted the access to your house because they basically blocked theirs. I’m surprised they were allowed to extend into the passageway.

I would allow them occasional use only, which wouldn’t constitute a right of way.

Mirabai · 26/05/2023 06:21

It’s standard to allow side extension into a passageway, it’s their land. But if they extended to the boundary, which I’d imagine they have, they can’t add a fence - that may be on OP’s land.

Tots678 · 26/05/2023 06:32

I don't really understand your diagram. But solicitors cost a fortune. If you are friendly with your NDN maybe leave things but in the long run when you want to sell you house it might put others off if your neighbours are using your access/ have ownership of your sidepath. Or if you allow their wheelibins, or whatever, through it it doesn't give them ownership.

Original poster
moodoperator · 26/05/2023 06:32

Mirabai · 26/05/2023 06:21

It’s standard to allow side extension into a passageway, it’s their land. But if they extended to the boundary, which I’d imagine they have, they can’t add a fence - that may be on OP’s land.

As I've said before I'm no expert but the fence line from the garden, which I assume to be the boundary line is continued straight into the alleyway instead of stopping where the back of the house is/was.
So I'm guessing that the extension isn't encroaching but I really don't see what value the fences in the alleyway are adding to anyone.
The extension was done ages ago but the fence is relatively new but before we moved in. By the sound of things talking to all the neighbours the previous owners were difficult so NDN might have done it to annoy them.

OP posts:
ArcticSkewer · 26/05/2023 06:33

It all depends on whose land that fence is on.
If it's on their land, or on the boundary, it's up to them really. You can ask if they would remove their fence but you can't expect to have continuous access to walk on their land (assuming there's no right to this in the deeds - but then, they shouldn't have built on it either!). Nor can they on your land.

Maybe think of it as a temporary request so you can access your garden with a digger, if that's what you want it for?

It's hard to tell here. You say you assume they would pay, so do you mean it's them who have approached you about this? In that case, just no! If they built up to the boundary and now want to use your side entrance permanently, why would you permit that? Again, temporary access for something would be different.

Make sure boundaries are really well defined. It's important for getting on well and for selling later on.

Mirabai · 26/05/2023 06:38

As I've said before I'm no expert but the fence line from the garden, which I assume to be the boundary line is continued straight into the alleyway instead of stopping where the back of the house is/was.

In that case there’s nothing to be done. Your builders will have use use your house as access.

Needapadlockonmyfridge · 26/05/2023 06:41

It looks as if the fence is on your land.
Get legal advice before you make any decisions.

Original poster
moodoperator · 26/05/2023 06:43

Mirabai · 26/05/2023 06:38

As I've said before I'm no expert but the fence line from the garden, which I assume to be the boundary line is continued straight into the alleyway instead of stopping where the back of the house is/was.

In that case there’s nothing to be done. Your builders will have use use your house as access.

So they could run their fence line all the way to the front of the house if it is on the boundary? Isn't the alleyway meant to provide shared access?

OP posts:
Lovingitallnow · 26/05/2023 06:48

You need to look up the official boundaries of the house. It might be shared or half might be owned by you and half by them.