Restoring NDN's side access - walkover or win-win?

[moodoperator]

We moved into a semi a couple of years back. Non-attached NDN has been there for 30 years plus and extended out into the garden and sideways out into their side of the alleyway, thereby removing their own side access. They’ve also run their fence 3 panels back into the alleyway which has had the effect of restricting the width of our access to less than 60cm.

We could do with the access being wider as we might be doing some work in the back. They could also do with restoring their side access, although the obvious point that they should have thought about that before they extended to remove it is not lost on us.

We get on with them well enough but can’t tell if we’re being walkovers, short-sighted or just behaving reasonably to achieve a win-win.

Hopefully the diagram showing the changes in red explains the rest and you can see that some of our existing private garden space will become shared if we make the change. The gardens are long and wide enough so I don’t think we’ll miss the space we’re losing but we may well feel differently about that when it’s too late.

Also with the drain being there, there’s going to have to be some way of retaining access to it under a fence panel, not sure how that would work?

I don’t think paying for it will be an issue, I assume they will pay all costs. Also I'm wondering if a solicitor needs to be involved.

Thoughts please.

Ok, got it, thank you

Depends on the property. But if they were allowed to extend sideways into the passage, then they must own their half and it’s not shared communal land.

Some semis have fencing all down the alleyway between the houses, and yours may have had one originally. It’s not necessarily “shared” access.

You definitely need to make sure you have all the facts before rushing in.

If the fence is on your land/side of the passageway, then the easiest thing would be to require them to remove it/move it.

But if it's on the boundary, then your best bet is to ask them very nicely if they'd remove it temporarily and reinstate it later (at your expense) to allow you to carry out the building work you need.

I'm definitely not rushing anything and after having read everyone's very helpful comments, I'm inclined to put this on the ignore forever section of my to-do list.

I wouldn't ignore the issue.

You need to know if the fence is on your land, and if it is, you need to have it removed. Otherwise you could negatively affect the value of your property.

Definitely don't ignore the issue. Do you have legal advice cover with your home insurance? If so I'd contact them.

Go back to the report your solicitor sent you before you exchanged. That should clearly explain whether the alleyway is your land or shared in some way. The position of the fence is another thing which should have been clarified before you bought the place. Do you even know for sure it's their fence? The people you bought from may have put it in to stop the NDN encroaching on their path from their side.

Ok I'll check but it seems likely to me that the gap can't be shared access or NDN couldn't have extended out sideways. So the fence line is at the boundary and we have to suck it up.
The option of removing it temporarily might be worth asking them about when we do the work at the back but otherwise we will make sure there is access through our house.
The whole changing the fences for what I (incorrectly) thought was a win-win is what I'm going to forget about forever.

It's their fence, they put it in, the other side is ours and we had it replaced shortly after we moved in.

Your deeds should define whether you each have an access right over the whole passageway (maybe that seems unlikely as they've built on their side, thereby denying you such access).
Firstly have a look at your deeds and see what they say.

The fence may be newer, but could just be replacing the existing fence which predated the extension and when replacing the fence they just replaced like for like.

Have they asked about doing this, or is it all coming from you?

I bumped into them and it came up in conversation that they couldn't get a gardener because round here a lot of gardeners won't go through the house.

So their problem has been pushed to be your problem?

Don't even entertain the original idea, they are trying it on. Just because they did an extension that has limited the side access, that isn't anyone's fault but their own.

You know for certain whose responsibility it is to maintain the boundary structures from the title register for your house? Just because someone put a fence up doesn't mean they put it in the right place. Neighbours should agree to a fence being positioned on the boundary line otherwise it should be inside the boundary line of whoever is putting it up.

It would be a hard no from me if someone has been dumb enough to build up to the boundary line like that and not thought about access issues beforehand. I certainly wouldn't be giving land away to them.

I did ask the solicitor who did the conveyancing about the fence but it was after the sale but by then I'd already paid him so he never replied and I forgot all about it.

Ask him again! Was it a cheapo conveyancing firm or solicetors?

Did he mention anything about covenants or shared access.

Does their existing fence really end at your gate or does it extend further at the front?

If I'm honest, I suggested it, (I know, I know, I'm a pleaser but in my defence I did see the benefit to us and hadn't really thought about the practicalities and the loss of space, and implication on deeds and mortgages). But I did say repeatedly that we'd need to think about it and that it wasn't something to rush into.

It ends at our gate, it goes three panels into the alley

He was far from cheap, I'll definitely do this.

This isn't an ignore issue. You've got a boundary issue, and that needs to be sorted out as there is a clock which starts running on how long you have to challenge it before you lose that right and your neighbours' property gains the right to access over your land whenever they wish.

You're generally not allowed to build right up to the boundary of a property, you have to leave space in order to give access for maintenance - so in this diagram, how would your neighbours do any work on their wall or fence without them going on your property (which by the way you are under no obligation to do at all)? Is their development legal - a solicitor should check this.

The fence that they've reinstated appears to encroach on your land, so this probably needs to be taken down - again, a solicitor should be able to check and advise you on what boundary is shown in the deeds.

Under no circumstances do you give them access to their property through yours - tough luck if they didn't consider this, it's their problem.

You definitely don't start giving them bits of your land and rights over it as it will affect the value, as others have said.

Look at it this way: if your neighbour borrowed your favourite dress, altered it to suit them (making it too small for you), then said they'd decided to keep it so they could use it whenever they wanted, you'd be outraged. Why are you letting them do this to your biggest financial asset?

By doing nothing you're creating rights which devalue your property, and allowing a boundary dispute to arise. If you ever wanted to sell it, you'd have to disclose that the neighbours have a right to go over the property - that would put any buyer off, so you could end up in a property which you cannot sell.

Unfortunately doing nothing is not an issue, this needs to be sorted asap. Go and see a solicitor. Also, your neighbours will likely be shitty when you crack down because they know they're taking the piss, so be prepared for that, but rolling over to please them is not an option.

Wrt their side access - they haven’t a leg to stand on. Loss of access is always the downside of side extension.

This is the best advice! Or legal advice via a union or motor insurance

@Speedwell You’re allowed to build right up to the boundary, (party wall agreement) there is zero obligation to leave space for maintenance.

Secondly, OP clarified that the fence in the passage is simply an extension of the garden fence dividing their properties, which will be on the boundary, so not on their land.

OP should certainly check that the side passage is owned half owned by each, not communal space, but unless NDN’s built their extension totally illegally, the fact they have built on it indicates it’s their land.

How wide is the alley way on the side of your other neighbour, so you can compare?

You need ti check your title deeds, there may be a easement for the side access meaning it cannot be fenced or blocked by either neighbour. Also you cannot assume the fence is on the boundary.

In my view, Speedwell has accurately pinpointed the reasons why this issue must not be ignored. Boundary disputes are expensive, not only in potential legal fees and loss to a property's value, but also extremely stressful to resolve.

The OP needs to know what the facts are, not just keep guessing. Trying to resolve a dispute years down the line when things have been forgotten, memories faded, or previous lifelong neighbours with knowledge have died, is not avoiding hassle - it is inviting future trouble.