Section 21 Notices….

[CuriouslyDifferent]

Saw on the bbc today that a landlord has had to fight the tenant for two years to get their property back.

Obviously an extreme case - but surely all this is going to do is discourage potential landlords from renting out a property.

When renting I always knew that one day I’d be asked to leave and yep it happened and agreed when and sorted out a new pad.

i do understand that buying is not always an option for many reasons and some people will always rent, as i always have.

But surely a landlord has a right to decide they no longer wish to rent out a property and possibly put it on the market empty.

And I know there are abuses which I’ve never suffered - a complaint causing a s31 isn’t fair - and if it goes on the market afterwards in same state for a price increase is an abuse. In my opinion.

But surely the sort of hate we are seeing against landlords who actually fill a very necessary need - shouldn’t have to go through anything more than a few months whilst a tenant moves on. It’s ultimately going to discourage a section of landlords.

I know myself, when I discuss investment options, I’d steer very clear of property as an investment. It’s potentially just to much grief.

Completely agree. I have been in the position of becoming a landlord twice. I would have been a fair, good landlord. Both times I've decided to sell because the hassle and hoops to jump through just don't appeal.

I can't help but think all this will do is diminish the rental property available and increase therefore the unscrupulous landlords hold on things.

A bad situation all round.

Agree with pp. we have a small rental flat in an area of high demand. Our tenants moved out in March and we are going to sell.

We were good landlords for 5 years. We rented to an unemployed person (with a guarantor) and charged below market rate throughout. Rents are now £150-200 pm more than we charged our last tenant.

Lots of LLs are selling, so demand and prices will be even higher.

@CuriouslyDifferent you would think that most tenants would agree but sadly they don't. I'm lucky because I've never had to ask a tenant to leave. As long as they pay rent and look after property why would a LL want them to leave unless they wanted to sell the house? If a house is sold with tenant Insitu it can really only be sold to another LL. Plus it is usually sold cheaper than full market value.

Are there any landlords out there who actually charge full market rent? Or are they all benevolent?

The proposed legislation says that a landlord CAN evict a tenant to sell the house. Or to move in themselves, or complete major work.

It is proposing to end evictions where the landlord then rents the house out again to somebody else shortly afterwards.

This seems like a reasonable step, as long as it is accompanied by making eviction for not paying rent or damaging the property a quicker easier process. There would also need to be a way for the landlord to make reasonable rent rises.

As a country we want good tenants to have stable homes. Landlords I know are mostly put off due to the long process of evicting tenants who aren't paying rent.

I am currently in the position of trying to get someone out of my house.. it's certainly not easy. I gave them a section 21 and basically they have ignored it. I will now have to take them to county court and get bailiffs etc. It's very expensive and stressful. I really hate it. They have been a nightmare tenant and I want to sell up.

A section 21 isn't an eviction notice. A S21 is a sign to the tenant that you are seeking possession. To get possession you need to go to court. That has always been the case. Of course unscrupulous tenants take advantage of this, but they are following the law. Only courts can evict, not whatever paperwork you issue.

And your point is?

The current situation is unfair to both tenants and landlords imo.

I work with tenants served with these notices. For many it leaves them in a terrible position because rents have increased and there are multiple applications for properties..
For some this leaves no option but to turn to nonexistent social housing.

The council will not accept them until they have been existed by a bailiff. This is hugely unfair to landlords but the tenant is in an even worse situation because a council will tell then they are intentionally homeless if they leave before bailiffs evict.

The only answer is funding much more social housing so people have a real option.

This of course won't suit our Govt who have wealthy landlords keen to protect their income which will go down if there is more supply.

The advice on Mumsnet to tenants served with a section 21 always seems to be to ignore the notice, refuse to leave & it will take many more months for the LL to take legal action to force you out.
Seems rather short sighted if in the long term it is putting people off becoming LLs and thus exacerbating the chronic shortage of rental properties.
I agree with the advice only in certain circumstances where the tenant is genuinely desperate and cannot find another rental in time.

The advice on Mumsnet to tenants served with a section 21 always seems to be to ignore the notice, refuse to leave & it will take many more months for the LL to take legal action to force you out.
Seems rather short sighted if in the long term it is putting people off becoming LLs and thus exacerbating the chronic shortage of rental properties.

Plus the tenant is then even further on the back foot, looking for a new place to live with a CCJ against their name.

It doesn’t seem like sensible advice to me ( apart from for those really desperate but it seems to be dished out as standard advice on some threads)

Yep, first thing financial advisor suggested was getting rid of rental properties to invest in a higher, less Rick investment.

huge shortage in rental will force rent costs up.

if you get a notice to leave, I would advise to leave….

I don’t see the problem. I live in Scotland — no S21 here. Landlords have to have a reason for seeking occupancy/asking a tenant to leave: selling the property, moving in themselves, etc. Plenty of landlords still rent out their properties.

My cousin served a 21 on the tenants he had had for two years, who not once had paid the full month's rent.
He then received threatening phone calls, "we'll move out quietly if you don't pursue the arrears and write us a good reference".
They did go, some other poor fucker took them. My cousin never got the arrears obviously and ended up writing it off.
But yeah, tenants on MN are untouchable and it's only landlords that are scum.

This. You can evict if selling or moving in. Not because your tenants asked you to fix some damp and you don’t want to. Well overdue legislation.

The reason you don’t move out is until forced to by the court (if you can’t find anywhere else) is because the council won’t help you if you do, you will be found ‘intentionally homeless’ and on your own. It’s the system that’s fucked ..

If your tenant has arrears you use a section 8. It’s only the s21s that are being abolished because too many landlords evict any tenant who asks for repairs.

That’s reasonable advice if people are in a situation where they will need council accommodation. But it seems to be given out too often where people are looking for private accommodation.
I do understand there is a chronic lack of rentals at the moment but dragging out the inevitable to the last possible moment just makes more LLs want to sell.

Those of us who are lucky to be able to save, do so knowing we'll have to use that money to move if notice comes.
People who live payday to payday don't have that luxury and are in the shit when notice comes.
It's not always about being awkward, it's about not being homeless.

It isn't only advised on mumsnet. Shelter and the council housing department advise the same.
When someone decides to become a landlord, they should know that a s21 is just a request for possession. Only a court or the tenant can actually end a tenancy

Your cousin was a fool. If they owed more than 2 months rent they should have issued a s8

I’m sure the council housing department do recommend that course of action for people that will need council accommodation. The system is literally set up that way, which is wrong as it must be so stressful for the tenants.

My point was more that it shouldn’t be advised for people expecting to move to different private accommodation. Just because you legally can drag out the process a few months doesn’t mean it’s necessarily the most sensible thing to do.

I was a landlord for a while (didn't mean to be but had to move for work) and I hated it. But it's very clear that a lot of people on this thread have no idea what it feels like to have to move potentially kids/schools/everything with a relatively small amount of notice. It's intensely stressful and upsetting. @Twiglets1 comment in particular about people being short-sighted by not moving the moment a s21 arrives is particularly thoughtless. Have you never even considered that someone might be so distressed and desperate that the landlords' collective concerns might really not be very high up their priority list?

I didn’t say people should move the moment a section 21 arrives?

I just pointed out that it’s not good to deliberately wait until eviction unless you are needing council accommodation.