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Original poster

House survey- unexpected issues

166 replies

helloimnew123 · 03/04/2023 16:53

We are trying to buy a house. We had a RICS level 3 done last week.

The house is a doer upper for sure (previously rented/ empty for months) but things have come up on the survey that we hadn't accounted for. We did get £25k off the asking price but we didn't budget for some of the issues. It had been on the market for 4 months before we offered.

For example:

We had accounted for:

  • new render to the front, as it's visually damaged
-new kitchen & bathroom as not useable -new floors as floorboards etc. -decorating

We had not accounted for:
-4 of the windows are so broken that they don't open. They looked fine.
-the back door, the leaf door is soo broken it doesn't open. The agent only opened 1 door when we viewed.
-the lock on the font door is misaligned and hard to open & shut. The agent opened/ shut when we weren't around.
-the left boundary fence is beyond repair and needs replacing. Can't be seen behind bushes.
-the boiler is only a few years old has been tested and is in bad repair/ not working well.

Do you think we should suck it up as part of the refurbishments? Or should we try and negotiate as we didn't expect these costs?

Thanks

OP posts:
Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 17:39

cantkeepawayforever · 04/04/2023 16:42

Negotiate, without a doubt.

We bought a ‘significant doer-upper’ where some things were ‘obvious’ (new heating), some things were ‘nice to have because the existing, if extremely basic, were functional’ (new kitchen and bathrooms) sone things were ‘cosmetic’ (total redecoration and new floor coverings throughout) and some things were ‘a nasty surprise in the survey’ (chiefly electrics and windows)

We factored the first 3 sets into our offer. The extra ones that came up in the survey, we got indicative quotes from agreed trades and lowered the offer by that amount. We didn’t really have much option, tbh - electrics and windows were both dangerous- and the vendor knew any survey would show up the same issues.

This is exactly the advice/ feedback I wanted. Thank you 🙏

Mums net can be such a shit place with people making such nasty comments. Making out I'm stupid or a problem buyer because we used a survey to find out issues.

Did you ask for all the cost? Or something towards the cost?

OP posts:
cantkeepawayforever · 04/04/2023 17:45

We asked for, and documented. the full cost (the trades who quoted were recommended by the estate agent and agreed by the seller), and negotiated for slightly less.

We had no other option than to pull out (it was a very significant step up for us so was a ‘giving them all our money’ scenario) which focused the mind, as this was in a similarly ‘turning’ market to today’s.

KievLoverTwo · 04/04/2023 18:24

helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 17:36

@KievLoverTwo

We are lucky that family have provided somewhere we can stay that is lovely. We can stay as long as we want for free but we need a home. Also it's 30mins out of our home town and we have work/ childcare to commute back for so it's not a long term solution.

Are can stay here while work is done too so that helps.

We are happy to do the work, we just need the house to be the best price possible.

I think we'l wait for the mortgage value, then go view again ourselves, then try to make a calculated negotiation. They can always say no, but I doubt they will find someone else quickly and their only other option is to do it up themselves and rent it out again. I think we can in a good position to get it for a fair price

I think that sounds sensible. When our mortgage lender valued a house we later pulled out of, they wouldn't tell us the amount they valued it at, just that they would give us the mortgage on it. Idk if that was just the broker not pushing hard enough for the info or what.

From other things you have said: something like a massive kitchen and it already has a loft conversion, it does sound like it has potential as those are hellishly expensive things to do yourself, but you are in a good position being at the end of the chain with your finances in place, and I definitely think you should play hardball with them.

Like someone else said, it was a rental, they are not emotionally attached to it.

Wishing you the best of luck.

northeasrer · 04/04/2023 20:05

@KievLoverTwo either the house wasn't mortgageable or the would only lend £x and you had to make up the rest?

KievLoverTwo · 04/04/2023 20:17

northeasrer · 04/04/2023 20:05

@KievLoverTwo either the house wasn't mortgageable or the would only lend £x and you had to make up the rest?

Nah, the mortgage was approved, survey done and came out fine, and we were getting a mortgage 200k below one we are now about to get a year later. Someone just didn't want to tell us.

Shrug.

northeasrer · 04/04/2023 22:51

@KievLoverTwo I vaguely remember it being on paperwork for the mortgage? And it's the same value as what I offered.

Original poster
helloimnew123 · 05/04/2023 19:42

cantkeepawayforever · 04/04/2023 17:45

We asked for, and documented. the full cost (the trades who quoted were recommended by the estate agent and agreed by the seller), and negotiated for slightly less.

We had no other option than to pull out (it was a very significant step up for us so was a ‘giving them all our money’ scenario) which focused the mind, as this was in a similarly ‘turning’ market to today’s.

Just been thinking about how to best approach this. Could I ask a few questions about what you did?

Did you speak to the seller about your intentions (that you were getting quotes to know how much you needed discounting) before getting quotes for work?

Did you book people to go to the house to give you quotes?

Did you tell the estate agent your intentions?

Did you share the survey? I'm tempted to as I don't want to seem like a blagger and the survey is pretty damning.

I've tried to look online for window prices, but they need the measurements that I don't have.

I don't really know how to start the conversion.

Thanks

OP posts:
cantkeepawayforever · 05/04/2023 19:49

I know the estate agent ( the sales progressor) was fully informed and involved, and yes, both they and the seller knew we were getting indicative quotes fir the work identified in the survey. We booked in the trades visits via the estate agent, who also recommended the trades (it was an estate agent with a rentals arm, so we used the trades the rental arm recommended as fairly ‘neutral’. We eventually used one - the heating / plumbing one - but not that specific electrician. For windows, we took measurements during a visit to tge house after an initial rough estimate from the floor plan.

What I can’t remember is who we shared the survey with, or whether we shared the surveyor’s words about each issue but not the whole survey? Tbh, we have just sold and we got a copy of our buyers’ survey so I don’t think there’s any specific reason to keep it secret.

cantkeepawayforever · 05/04/2023 19:51

We started the conversation with an honest conversation with the agents that the survey had revealed problems additional to those we had already factored into our offer, so we would either have to renegotiate or withdraw.

cantkeepawayforever · 05/04/2023 20:00

The full survey was quite useful, because it demonstrated how many things we weren’t negotiating on because they were fully included in our offer, as well as the seriousness of the items we were raising (‘potentially non-earthed electrical installation ‘ and ‘risk of serious injury or fatality from flying glass if the leading of the many unsound windows fails in windy weather’ were two highlights) so I think we did share it, at least with the agent.

GoodChat · 05/04/2023 20:02

OP the surveyor should have told you anything that's critical v anything that can wait.

I'd speak to the estate agent and tell them you're getting quotes based on the critical work and ask if they'll facilitate workmen coming to the property to quote.

Don't liaise with the seller, just the EA.

Clymene · 05/04/2023 20:06

Mums net can be such a shit place with people making such nasty comments. Making out I'm stupid or a problem buyer because we used a survey to find out issues

I really object to this statement. You described the house as like a crack den. I would totally expect dodgy windows and electrics in any older house that's been poorly maintained.

It's not shitty or nasty to point out that it's naive to think that if a house is neglected and in poor repair, every single aspect of it will be. Windows, doors, electrics, roof, flushing, pointing, gutters, soffits, decoration etc etc.

I don't think you're stupid or a problem buyer. And I think you were absolutely right to get a really thorough survey. The survey can throw up things you weren't anticipating. Everything you've mentioned you should have anticipated.

I think you're naive which is not remotely the same thing as stupid or a problem buyer. And it's not nasty to point that out.

cantkeepawayforever · 05/04/2023 20:47

(Sorry, ‘potentially lethal non-earthed electrical installation’. )

Original poster
helloimnew123 · 05/04/2023 21:04

Clymene · 05/04/2023 20:06

Mums net can be such a shit place with people making such nasty comments. Making out I'm stupid or a problem buyer because we used a survey to find out issues

I really object to this statement. You described the house as like a crack den. I would totally expect dodgy windows and electrics in any older house that's been poorly maintained.

It's not shitty or nasty to point out that it's naive to think that if a house is neglected and in poor repair, every single aspect of it will be. Windows, doors, electrics, roof, flushing, pointing, gutters, soffits, decoration etc etc.

I don't think you're stupid or a problem buyer. And I think you were absolutely right to get a really thorough survey. The survey can throw up things you weren't anticipating. Everything you've mentioned you should have anticipated.

I think you're naive which is not remotely the same thing as stupid or a problem buyer. And it's not nasty to point that out.

I really object to your statement... now what!?

If you have nothing helpful to say, don't post on my threat 👍

OP posts:
Diyextension · 05/04/2023 21:06

Any link to the property ?

Original poster
helloimnew123 · 05/04/2023 21:08

@cantkeepawayforever

Thanks this is really helpful. We have never bought a house like this before so we are learning as we go along. It's hard to know what to do for the best.

Did you get a lot of push back from the seller? Or did they accept that some things were in a worse condition than expected?

OP posts:
Original poster
helloimnew123 · 05/04/2023 21:13

GoodChat · 05/04/2023 20:02

OP the surveyor should have told you anything that's critical v anything that can wait.

I'd speak to the estate agent and tell them you're getting quotes based on the critical work and ask if they'll facilitate workmen coming to the property to quote.

Don't liaise with the seller, just the EA.

I wasn't going to contact the seller directly. I was interested to know if people were transparent with the seller from the start? Or got their ducks in a row before putting anything to the seller

OP posts:
Clymene · 05/04/2023 21:16

If you spent less time being butthurt, you would have noticed that I said I've recently replaced all the windows in my house so I know how much that kind of thing costs. I would have told you if you'd asked.

I think you should walk away from this house. It's going to be a money pit because you're incapable of listening to advice and information you don't want to hear.

Good luck.

cantkeepawayforever · 05/04/2023 21:32

There was a process of negotiation with the seller on the final price. She needed to move, and we were the only viable offer on the table (only other real one was to sell to a developer to demolish the house and use the land to build several smaller houses). So the push back was not huge.

We were naive. We were competent DIYers who had built up from decorating House 1 to decorating, improving -kitchen -and extending House 2, but Doer Upper - House 3 - was a whole new ball game (wiring, water, heating, windows, extend / rebuild kitchen area and combine bathroom and toilet plus new bathrooms in phase 1; eventually complete re-roofing and rebuilding garage plus new driveway and fencing). It would probably have been sensible to walk away, but we loved that house, and it was a very happy family home for well over a decade.

Original poster
helloimnew123 · 05/04/2023 21:43

Clymene · 05/04/2023 21:16

If you spent less time being butthurt, you would have noticed that I said I've recently replaced all the windows in my house so I know how much that kind of thing costs. I would have told you if you'd asked.

I think you should walk away from this house. It's going to be a money pit because you're incapable of listening to advice and information you don't want to hear.

Good luck.

What are you even talking about!?

Il ask a window fitter for pricing 👍

No one is asking for your opinion on if I should buy the house or not

OP posts:
cantkeepawayforever · 05/04/2023 21:45

Overall, it doubled in value while we lived there. A return on our investment- yes, but not by huge amounts, mainly because the investment was so large in total. But we got the benefit of living in a house that we could absolutely not have afforded in its ‘done up’ state, which was liveable in after the first 3 months, and really perfectly nice after 2 years or so.

Original poster
helloimnew123 · 05/04/2023 21:51

cantkeepawayforever · 05/04/2023 21:32

There was a process of negotiation with the seller on the final price. She needed to move, and we were the only viable offer on the table (only other real one was to sell to a developer to demolish the house and use the land to build several smaller houses). So the push back was not huge.

We were naive. We were competent DIYers who had built up from decorating House 1 to decorating, improving -kitchen -and extending House 2, but Doer Upper - House 3 - was a whole new ball game (wiring, water, heating, windows, extend / rebuild kitchen area and combine bathroom and toilet plus new bathrooms in phase 1; eventually complete re-roofing and rebuilding garage plus new driveway and fencing). It would probably have been sensible to walk away, but we loved that house, and it was a very happy family home for well over a decade.

Thanks for sharing your experience, it's really interesting to hear how others have done it.

We should be fine with the majority of the work as my partners company can do most of it. We will be able to do it 'cheap' and quickly as he has a team that can do it at cost. We also won't have to live there until it's done. The survey didn't throw up anything structural so that's good.

We are going to wait for the mortgage survey and see how that goes and then make a plan.

We want the house and it will be amazing when it's done. We just have to consider how much it will cost to do the things we can't do and what the fair price is for the house in the current market. The survey has thrown up things we (rightly or wrongly) didn't expect that potentially impacts what we think a fair price is

OP posts:
Original poster
helloimnew123 · 05/04/2023 21:58

cantkeepawayforever · 05/04/2023 21:45

Overall, it doubled in value while we lived there. A return on our investment- yes, but not by huge amounts, mainly because the investment was so large in total. But we got the benefit of living in a house that we could absolutely not have afforded in its ‘done up’ state, which was liveable in after the first 3 months, and really perfectly nice after 2 years or so.

That's good to know. This will be a long term house for us. We have young children so I can really see the potential of a family home.

Did you enjoy getting a house that was completely your taste?

We completely decorated (new bathrooms/ kitchen etc) our last property and everything was lovely and modern and our taste! I was sad to sell it but we had outgrown it

OP posts:
cantkeepawayforever · 05/04/2023 21:58

I think it is completely reasonable to try to negotiate. The offer you have put in is not that far below the asking price (in the current uncertain market) and the owners can always say ‘no’ to any requested reduction. Whether others think you ‘should’ have factored these things in is irrelevant - as it happens, you didn’t, and so you want to renegotiate post survey. Reducing offer post survey is normal, almost to the extent of being universal in ‘non boom’ times, and it would be much more naive to decide ‘I won’t even try’. Rational reasons for reductions - costed quotes - are much better than ‘we just decided to reduce our offer on a whim’

Go for it and good luck!

cantkeepawayforever · 05/04/2023 22:01

Did you enjoy getting a house that was completely your taste?

Oh yes! We have now moved to a ‘ready done’ house and little things - like quirks of the kitchen layout and lack of shaver sockets for electric toothbrush chargers on the bathrooms - are disproportionately annoying, having had exactly what we wanted.