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Original poster

House survey- unexpected issues

166 replies

helloimnew123 · 03/04/2023 16:53

We are trying to buy a house. We had a RICS level 3 done last week.

The house is a doer upper for sure (previously rented/ empty for months) but things have come up on the survey that we hadn't accounted for. We did get £25k off the asking price but we didn't budget for some of the issues. It had been on the market for 4 months before we offered.

For example:

We had accounted for:

  • new render to the front, as it's visually damaged
-new kitchen & bathroom as not useable -new floors as floorboards etc. -decorating

We had not accounted for:
-4 of the windows are so broken that they don't open. They looked fine.
-the back door, the leaf door is soo broken it doesn't open. The agent only opened 1 door when we viewed.
-the lock on the font door is misaligned and hard to open & shut. The agent opened/ shut when we weren't around.
-the left boundary fence is beyond repair and needs replacing. Can't be seen behind bushes.
-the boiler is only a few years old has been tested and is in bad repair/ not working well.

Do you think we should suck it up as part of the refurbishments? Or should we try and negotiate as we didn't expect these costs?

Thanks

OP posts:
GoodChat · 04/04/2023 06:41

helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 01:10

One thing I maybe should have added that the house is was listed at £750k and we got it for £725k

'Done' they sell for about £825k ish. One sold not long ago for £850k but that's the ceiling.

It was on the market a while and had interest but all offers were low ball because of the work needed

My partner can do a lot himself because of his trade, but we don't have a bottomless pit of money

It sounds like you're getting a fairly priced house for the work it needs.

Where in the country are you? If you don't want to do the work, you could definitely get a nice house for the money.

Sodd · 04/04/2023 06:55

You’re buying a doer upper so these things are to be expected. You already have the property at 100k less this should reflect the cost of doing it up to the £850 standard. The boiler might be worth asking for a discount? Depends if you’ve a good deal already though

christmastreefarm · 04/04/2023 07:00

Do the windows need replacing or just hinges? My daughters window would only open an inch and it was a small job - just a repair to hinge.

DrySherry · 04/04/2023 07:39

I would definitely be tempted to renegotiate. They know you're a serious buyer after spending money on the survey and they can see a completion is just around the corner. They will have to take your reviewed offer very seriously. Don't forget they also know the house didn't go under offer easily and that the next survey, if they turn down your revision, will just throw up the issues again. It may sound harsh but you have got to try to take out emotional constraints and try to buy with a firm financial head on. Hard I know, but in the current climate you need to be sure you tried getting the best deal possible.

Theelephantinthecastle · 04/04/2023 07:47

I would negotiate. Primarily on the doors and windows. I don't think most people try them all when viewing, it's reasonable to assume they all open and shut even if they aren't in optimal condition. And also it doesn't sound like you're getting a fabulous deal already.

I have always negotiated after survey and have always got something off the price.

But, as with all negotiations, you should think about what the house is worth to you. It's not a huge risk but there is a small risk that the sellers pull out if you try to negotiate and if you would be devastated, then you probably shouldn't. I have always felt that I was in a strong negotiating position because there were other properties I could go for instead.

Theelephantinthecastle · 04/04/2023 07:55

In England (v different in Scotland) - the point of the survey being in between offer and exchange is both to give you the opportunity to pull out and also to give you the opportunity to negotiate on issues.

It's completely legitimate to negotiate. We aren't DIY types, there are loads of things a surveyor will spot that we never would. That's why we pay for the service.

LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 04/04/2023 07:59

Doer uppers are frequently full of expensive surprises and doing up frequently costs far more than originally budgeted for, even if you are experienced. If you are tight on cash and aren’t an electrician/plumber/builder then maybe this house is not for you.

C4tastrophe · 04/04/2023 09:14

You need to do your maths again. If the very best house went for 850 at the peak, prices are 10% off now ( yes, yes, area depending) so that’s 765 absolute top price ( think bi-fold doors, lantern etc). Sounds like you need to spend 100-125k, and then it will be worth ( if everything stays static) 730-750.
Does it need replastering? How’s the roof and chimneys?
Factor in the time also. If it’s the mythical ‘forever home’ then go for it, eyes wide open though.

AgathaX · 04/04/2023 09:36

As you've got it for around 100k below done up price currently then I think you've paid a fair price for the 'non-structural' work that needs doing. Particularly if your partner is in the trades.

"how much time would you spend checking all these details on a property you haven't had an offer accepted on? Surely that's why you get a survey? So a professional can check everything thoroughly?" - we always buy renovation projects, both as our own homes and myself as a developer, so spend whatever time we need to crawling over a property to get to the nitty gritty of what needs doing. I have no faith in surveyors, they have a habit of saying whatever they need to cover their owns arses, so finding out what requires doing is all down to us. I'm surprised really that anyone contemplating buying a project wouldn't check it out thoroughly themselves, and get some kind of mental costing of work required before putting in an offer. How would you know what to offer otherwise?

Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 09:38

SquirrelsAreStinky · 04/04/2023 06:34

I would say that if you're getting it £100k less than the usual price of "done" houses a lot of what you've described would be expected.

I certainly wouldn't be expecting to be asked for a reduction because of a knackered fence panel and a sticky front door.

However, I would clarify the position re the boiler, and you could ask for the windows to be repaired too prior to exchange. That's what we did. Our vendor offered us money off rather than fixing/replacing the boiler, but they repaired the windows. We didn't have to ask for a reduction.

This sounds like the perfect solution for us.
Some things are definitely not an issue and we wouldn't mention.

We aren't really bothered about getting new windows immediately but I was expecting them to open. If they would make them operational that would be great.

Hopefully we can find some compromise.

OP posts:
Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 09:42

@GoodChat we are in south west London.
You couldn't get something nice for that money here.

We did offer £750k for a 'done' version which wasn't extended. But it went for over asking and we need the extended space really.

OP posts:
Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 09:44

Sodd · 04/04/2023 06:55

You’re buying a doer upper so these things are to be expected. You already have the property at 100k less this should reflect the cost of doing it up to the £850 standard. The boiler might be worth asking for a discount? Depends if you’ve a good deal already though

I think it's probably a fair price, I don't think it's a steal

Anything 'done' is moving very fast here but anything needing work isn't selling

OP posts:
Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 09:45

christmastreefarm · 04/04/2023 07:00

Do the windows need replacing or just hinges? My daughters window would only open an inch and it was a small job - just a repair to hinge.

I'm not 100% sure. Maybe they could be fixed which would be great.

OP posts:
Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 09:48

DrySherry · 04/04/2023 07:39

I would definitely be tempted to renegotiate. They know you're a serious buyer after spending money on the survey and they can see a completion is just around the corner. They will have to take your reviewed offer very seriously. Don't forget they also know the house didn't go under offer easily and that the next survey, if they turn down your revision, will just throw up the issues again. It may sound harsh but you have got to try to take out emotional constraints and try to buy with a firm financial head on. Hard I know, but in the current climate you need to be sure you tried getting the best deal possible.

It's a hard balance isn't it.

We honestly aren't trying to be arseholes but we need to be sensible and make our money go as far as possible.

Do people ever share their surveys with sellers? I wonder if they would realise the actual condition! It's a second home for them so maybe they aren't that aware of all the issues.

OP posts:
cupofdecaf · 04/04/2023 09:51

If you're replacing the floors, bathroom and kitchen 4 windows and a couple of external doors should be in budget if you either lower the spec or take longer and save up as you go. I'm confused how you can live somewhere without a useable bathroom and kitchen but need all the windows to open.

Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 09:53

Theelephantinthecastle · 04/04/2023 07:47

I would negotiate. Primarily on the doors and windows. I don't think most people try them all when viewing, it's reasonable to assume they all open and shut even if they aren't in optimal condition. And also it doesn't sound like you're getting a fabulous deal already.

I have always negotiated after survey and have always got something off the price.

But, as with all negotiations, you should think about what the house is worth to you. It's not a huge risk but there is a small risk that the sellers pull out if you try to negotiate and if you would be devastated, then you probably shouldn't. I have always felt that I was in a strong negotiating position because there were other properties I could go for instead.

I'm really surprised that people are saying they open all windows when viewing. We didn't expect them to be like new, but I wouldn't expect the majority to open.

The price is reasonable but not a great deal. In our area the housing market is still moving very fast as it's a desirable area. The only things not moving are ones that need lots of work.

We are chain free and have a fairly good deposit. Im of the opinion that whats meant to be, I'm not hugely emotional about the situation

OP posts:
Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 09:56

cupofdecaf · 04/04/2023 09:51

If you're replacing the floors, bathroom and kitchen 4 windows and a couple of external doors should be in budget if you either lower the spec or take longer and save up as you go. I'm confused how you can live somewhere without a useable bathroom and kitchen but need all the windows to open.

I have explained that we had budgeted to do the kitchen/ bathroom straight away and planned to spend all our savings making it liveable by decorating.
We weren't expecting to have to replace the windows straight away. Not sure what's so confusing?

OP posts:
Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 09:58

Theelephantinthecastle · 04/04/2023 07:55

In England (v different in Scotland) - the point of the survey being in between offer and exchange is both to give you the opportunity to pull out and also to give you the opportunity to negotiate on issues.

It's completely legitimate to negotiate. We aren't DIY types, there are loads of things a surveyor will spot that we never would. That's why we pay for the service.

My partner is a tradesman but the things that have been highlighted are not in his area.

I think we'l sit on it for a few days and think of the best way forward. We don't really want to pull out but we need to be sure the house is fairly priced for the actual condition

OP posts:
ChateauMargaux · 04/04/2023 09:59

I would ask a different question on here.

We are looking at a 4 bed detached house in the South East which needs a lot of work..

New Kitchen
New Bathroom
Front render
Damaged gutters and some loose tiles.
Survey has thrown up front and rear doors that don't open as well as windows that don't open.

Flooring throughout needs to be replaced.

How much do you think we need to budget?

I would also get another viewing, possibly with a builder to give you ideas of costs.. look at all of the things, including the fence, that you will have to address and compare it to a 'done' property. Be realistic in terms of what can be repaired and what has to be replaced. Get someone in to look at the boiler.

If a done property is worth £825 and it would cost you £150 to get there.. then your offer is too high.

If you cannot negotiate further, you don't want smaller and cannot afford done up, you have to decide if it is worth living with fixing rather than repairing and if you can do it with the funds you have available.

Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 10:01

LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 04/04/2023 07:59

Doer uppers are frequently full of expensive surprises and doing up frequently costs far more than originally budgeted for, even if you are experienced. If you are tight on cash and aren’t an electrician/plumber/builder then maybe this house is not for you.

My partner is a tradesman but we still don't have a bottomless pit of money.

I guess we need to be realistic about the unexpected. But the survey has now made thing's expected which now has put a different perspective on the condition

OP posts:
Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 10:07

AgathaX · 04/04/2023 09:36

As you've got it for around 100k below done up price currently then I think you've paid a fair price for the 'non-structural' work that needs doing. Particularly if your partner is in the trades.

"how much time would you spend checking all these details on a property you haven't had an offer accepted on? Surely that's why you get a survey? So a professional can check everything thoroughly?" - we always buy renovation projects, both as our own homes and myself as a developer, so spend whatever time we need to crawling over a property to get to the nitty gritty of what needs doing. I have no faith in surveyors, they have a habit of saying whatever they need to cover their owns arses, so finding out what requires doing is all down to us. I'm surprised really that anyone contemplating buying a project wouldn't check it out thoroughly themselves, and get some kind of mental costing of work required before putting in an offer. How would you know what to offer otherwise?

Now the survey has highlighted key things, we are booked to go have another look around to check things for ourselves.

We aren't developers so don't have that experience. That's why we paid for a survey.

OP posts:
Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 10:13

ChateauMargaux · 04/04/2023 09:59

I would ask a different question on here.

We are looking at a 4 bed detached house in the South East which needs a lot of work..

New Kitchen
New Bathroom
Front render
Damaged gutters and some loose tiles.
Survey has thrown up front and rear doors that don't open as well as windows that don't open.

Flooring throughout needs to be replaced.

How much do you think we need to budget?

I would also get another viewing, possibly with a builder to give you ideas of costs.. look at all of the things, including the fence, that you will have to address and compare it to a 'done' property. Be realistic in terms of what can be repaired and what has to be replaced. Get someone in to look at the boiler.

If a done property is worth £825 and it would cost you £150 to get there.. then your offer is too high.

If you cannot negotiate further, you don't want smaller and cannot afford done up, you have to decide if it is worth living with fixing rather than repairing and if you can do it with the funds you have available.

I guess we don't need to know that information as my partner and his company can do all the work we have budgeted for. And we can get a lot of things at cost/ mates rates.

The things we didn't expect are things that we'v have to pay full price for as we don't know a gas safe engineer/ window fitter/ fence fitter etc.

We knew things would come up as we went along. But we didn't expect some big expenses straight away. And now we know about them it puts things in a different light.

OP posts:
Diyextension · 04/04/2023 10:16

In my experience’s of FTB’s are usually like this ( hard work ) The lack of house owning experience means they are worried about everything. The things you have mentioned are just usual maintenance things ( lack of it in your case ) and can be sorted easily.

Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 10:16

ChateauMargaux · 04/04/2023 09:59

I would ask a different question on here.

We are looking at a 4 bed detached house in the South East which needs a lot of work..

New Kitchen
New Bathroom
Front render
Damaged gutters and some loose tiles.
Survey has thrown up front and rear doors that don't open as well as windows that don't open.

Flooring throughout needs to be replaced.

How much do you think we need to budget?

I would also get another viewing, possibly with a builder to give you ideas of costs.. look at all of the things, including the fence, that you will have to address and compare it to a 'done' property. Be realistic in terms of what can be repaired and what has to be replaced. Get someone in to look at the boiler.

If a done property is worth £825 and it would cost you £150 to get there.. then your offer is too high.

If you cannot negotiate further, you don't want smaller and cannot afford done up, you have to decide if it is worth living with fixing rather than repairing and if you can do it with the funds you have available.

I have looked online for some quotes to get a rough idea of these few big known issues.

My main question was is it normal to try and negotiate if a survey throws up issues like windows etc. or is it just expected that you would replace them?

OP posts:
Original poster
helloimnew123 · 04/04/2023 10:18

Diyextension · 04/04/2023 10:16

In my experience’s of FTB’s are usually like this ( hard work ) The lack of house owning experience means they are worried about everything. The things you have mentioned are just usual maintenance things ( lack of it in your case ) and can be sorted easily.

We aren't FTB. We have bought and sold multiple properties but nothing in this condition.

Have you got any valuable advice?

OP posts: