New boiler or heat source pump?

[WilbursWinnie]

So, our boiler has packed up! At least it's on the way into summer and not the start of winter!

So, do we buy a new boiler or should we be looking into a heat source pump or alternative eco friendly solution?

I have this fear that buying a new boiler is the wrong thing to do but I'm not really basing this on anything.

Full disclosure: our house is an old brick building that is not currently well insulated. it is rural and we currently have oil central heating.

What would you do and why?

[TizerorFizz]

@Nat6999 So you don’t own one, have no experience whatsoever and are quite happy with fossil fuels! Our heat pumps are 13 years old. It’s not particularly new technology. We are such a nation of wasteful dinosaurs. The U tube plumber included. If you listen to nay sayers no one would ever have bought a car! Let alone explored beyond a “flat earth”.

[BishopRock]

@RidingMyBike

Is this based on any personal experience or just the random musings of a plumber on YouTube who may not be an unbiased source?!

Exactly! Many plumbers are also gas heating engineers, so are hardly going to want people to embrace heat pumps.

My plumber told me the north of England was no good for heat pumps, then said the houses on my estate were no good for them. Yet I had someone out to assess the house who said if I sort the insulation there's no reason not to have a heatpump. And from all the research I've done it's clear insulation is key.

So I'll ignore my plumber.

[Bewilderedandhurt]

You have to remember heating is similar to most aspects of your property, it's very hard to find an independent professional who can give you honest advice. Most have a vested interest is selling you something whether it's a heat pump, insulation, boiler or damp proofing. They all have a reason to get your interest and ultimately your money.
There are many good forums on FB and self building sites that have alot of information to help you work out the pros and cons yourself.

[TollgateDebs]

Go and see the tech in situ. Look at homes constructed in the same materials as yours. There's the noise issue, insulation, glazing, needing to change pipes, radiators and the fact that some of this systems, at present, promise much and deliver little, including failing to work at cold temperatures and in some homes never managing much in the way of comfortable interior temperatures. Don't believe the blurb, this is about profit and pushing untested tech far too quickly onto the masses. It will work oneday but we need construction materials and methods that meet it halfway. Go and see, hear and speak to those who have these boilers and systems installedand check out what they are paying.

[jeffwhit]

It’s quite simple

why do I need to do so much improvement
just because of the heatpump?

UFH, insulation, new double or even triple glazing?

any benefit can only come from heatpump?

[DyslexicPoster]

@stargirl1701

A new boiler before they are phased out. The next time you replace it, the technology will be more reliable.

This. Like electric cars that had a very limited range when they first came out. Hopefully the tech will improve

[SoCunningYouCanStickATailOnItAndCallItAFox]

All they are is a reverse fridge in basic concept.

In Europe (where badly insulated houses are far less common) they have been ubiquitous for years. My friend who lives in Estonia and gets really serious winters hardly knows a soul who doesn't have one.

The main considerationis that they are long and low in terms of heat production. So if your house is draughty or poorly insulated you'll have to run it at a higher (less efficient) output to achieve a cosy house. Then you'll have high electric bills because it'll be less than 100% efficient.

However if you can run it at its optimum efficiency because the heat it gives isn't escaping as fast as it can make it, you can get up to 300% efficiency, meaning for every 1 unit of energy you buy you get 3 out. This makes it cheap to run.

So they're great... Fabulous in fact. 300% efficiency is not to be sniffed at... If you are well insulated.

[SoCunningYouCanStickATailOnItAndCallItAFox]

@jeffwhit

It’s quite simple

why do I need to do so much improvement
just because of the heatpump?

UFH, insulation, new double or even triple glazing?

any benefit can only come from heatpump?

Whatever heating system you have being well insulated etc will avoid wasting energy and money and make you more comfortable.

The only difference is that with a gas boiler when you throw money out of the window in the form of escaped heat, you're cushioned a little from that waste because gas is cheaper than electricity.

Anyone with good insulation will enjoy really low energy bills whatever their heating system. Sadly in the UK many homes are badly insulated and retro fitting insulation isn't easy (or cheap), so people are often trapped as they are.

[Bluebellwood129]

@RidingMyBike

Is this based on any personal experience or just the random musings of a plumber on YouTube who may not be an unbiased source?!

Random musings of someone desperately trying to protect their future earning potential.
'Technology not advanced enough yet'.....😂

[jeffwhit]

@SoCunningYouCanStickATailOnItAndCallItAFox

Whatever heating system you have being well insulated etc will avoid wasting energy and money and make you more comfortable.

The only difference is that with a gas boiler when you throw money out of the window in the form of escaped heat, you're cushioned a little from that waste because gas is cheaper than electricity.

Anyone with good insulation will enjoy really low energy bills whatever their heating system. Sadly in the UK many homes are badly insulated and retro fitting insulation isn't easy (or cheap), so people are often trapped as they are.

It’s true but the extra cost on ufh, insulation, heat pump itself, and might even be some new triple glazing could pay my energy bills for quite some years or decades?

not to mention the electricity costs 

and i have a warm winter with my boiler and rads so far

the only difference is that not only the user pay for the heatpump, all the taxpayer have to pay for it :(

[SoCunningYouCanStickATailOnItAndCallItAFox]

Yup. Which is why it's a national shame that we built badly insulated houses in the first place when we knew better but improvements were glacial, the legacy it leaves is crap for personal and planetary resources.

But that's nothing to do with the heating system.

The heating system is perfect in the right setting.

If you want to insulate your house anyway it would mean the heat pump became an option on the table.

Should you insulate your house only for the economic benefit of a heat pump... No because the costs don't stack up.

There are many reasons to want to insulate your house though (such as condensation control, thermal comfort, carbon footprint etc etc).;

[fatima234]

@stargirl1701

A new boiler before they are phased out. The next time you replace it, the technology will be more reliable.

They won't be phased out in existing homes

[fatima234]

@Whammyyammy

My friend has a heat pump, cost three times the price of a boiler and has is always cold. Get a boiler

Their radiators won't be right. They need to go back to the installers

[stargirl1701]

@fatima234

My point is that new boilers are being phased out though. Buy before they go...

[RidingMyBike]

Amusingly the plumber who installed our heat pump (the son of a father and son company) told me very enthusiastically about how he'd qualified to install them, he thought it was the future and was doing increasing numbers of them. Clearly the company were still doing boilers and servicing them but there was also a market in heat pumps and it's growing.

Ours is wonderful - nice warm house, loads of hot water. Also quieter than a boiler.

[LauraNicolaides]

I've researched air source heat pumps extensively and I think it's all down to insulation.

This is true, but really it's an admission that they're not very good at heating! If your house is very well insulated then any heating will be cheap to run. With heat pumps you don't really have the option, because they don't actually produce much heat.

Insulation is a separate decision from which system to use to heat the place.

[SoCunningYouCanStickATailOnItAndCallItAFox]

Yes, insulation will make any heating system cheaper. Obvs
But there is no other heating system fuelled by electricity that can achieve 300% efficiency.
You could choose gas instead, if that's an option, gas is cheaper but won't go above 100% efficiency.
You could go solar which would provide free energy, but only when the sun is around enough.
You could go ground source heat pump but you need a lot of land and the groundworks are eye wateringly expensive.
You could go other electric heating system but it will only be 100% efficient.

There are pros and cons to all systems.
Air source heat pump has advantages over some systems, disadvantages against others.

[jeffwhit]

300% efficiency, it must be cheaper to run I guess?

how many decades could break even?

[jeffwhit]

@stargirl1701

@fatima234

My point is that new boilers are being phased out though. Buy before they go...

the most realistic would be go for hydrogen-ready boiler

[HamstersAreMyLife]

We live in an edwardian house and with the nature of the building and the fact we can't have external insulation (although not sure I would anyway after looking into damp issues) we had advice that it just wouldn't be suitable for us. It really does depend where you are trying to heat. Insulation is always beneficial whatever your heating method.

[Smithstreet]

We are just getting one. I know five people who have them so have been in all their homes this winter and all warm and fine. My brother lives in a northern European country where they all have them as well so feel we have real experience of how warm they make a house. We do have a really well insulated house, loft, under floors, good windows and doors and external insulation cladding (cannot remember the official name) on the outside.

[StatisticallyChallenged]

@fatima234

Their radiators won't be right. They need to go back to the installers

Might also not be running it very effectively - our whole street has them and most people love them but I've helped a couple who were finding it cold. They weren't running them enough; trying to use them like their previous boilers by sticking them on for a couple of hours morning and evening.

That doesn't work (for ours at least) - it's far better just set to a constant temperature all day. In our case it actually uses less power that way too as it only kicks on and off for relatively short periods.

[StillWantingADog]

our air source heat pump Arrives this week and we hope to be totally switched off gas
very soon.

a lot of duff info out there- the newer better ones are not noisy and like with any kind of appliance some are more reliable than others. We’ve done our research. Extensively. There is a reason that in the Nordics they have had them since the 1990s- anyone that says they’re not warm enough didn’t get the right radiators. They are designed to keep temperatures constant (not up and down like we’re used to) and up to 23 degrees should be no problem

we’re very much not doing it to save money. We’re in a modern well insulted house and are willing to fork out for upgrading the pipe work and replacing all radiators- this is all messy and expensive. So if your house is old I wouldn’t consider it unless you are willing to do the
above and massively improve the insulation.

but it’s wrong to say that they’re shit. It’s just that they’re unfortunately not suited to most older houses.

[StillWantingADog]

ps as much insulation as you can manage is a good idea whatever you use to heat your house

and a brand new boiler will almost certainly be a lot more efficient than whatever you currently have.

[onefinemess]

Get a boiler, heat pumps DO NOT work in the UK.

The reason they don't work is because our housing stock isn't compatible and can't be easily altered to make heat pumps effective. Would you pay 100k to insulate an old hous, and another 15k to install a heat pump, just to "save" a few grams of CO2?

The environmental argument for CO2 caused climate change has long since been shredded. Climatology people now say "can lead to" or "is believed to cause" because they know there in no actual proof that CO2 affects the climate.

It accounts for 0.004% of the atmosphere, and saving CO2 is about as effective as using a coffee cup to empty the Atlantic.

Get your boiler OP.